DaveMage
Slumbering in Tsar
Yuck.
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What Would Get You to Subscribe to Dungeon?
- Thread starter JoeGKushner
- Start date
Yuck.
Arnwyn
First Post
- Print.
- Price isn't an issue at all (though I would happily pay more for print)
- Back to the "quality" during Paizo's tenure (e.g. an actual SoW outline, along with detailed support articles in Dragon; and simply: "better adventures")
- If I'm stuck with electronic, then the maps need to be high quality, scaleable (if that's the right term), and include tagged and untagged versions. For all maps.
- Price isn't an issue at all (though I would happily pay more for print)
- Back to the "quality" during Paizo's tenure (e.g. an actual SoW outline, along with detailed support articles in Dragon; and simply: "better adventures")
- If I'm stuck with electronic, then the maps need to be high quality, scaleable (if that's the right term), and include tagged and untagged versions. For all maps.
The_Gneech
Explorer
I have no problem with b/w; in fact, I generally prefer it.
I'd still want a full-size mag, tho.
-The Gneech, tapping his foot impatiently for the next Kobold Quarterly
I'd still want a full-size mag, tho.
-The Gneech, tapping his foot impatiently for the next Kobold Quarterly
thundershot
Adventurer
Battlemats. Yes... I want them. For each encounter...
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
Chalk me up as another for hard copy.
I've downloaded various 4e adventures off the website in pdf form but I can't read the blasted things. I do most of my game reading in short breaks or when I'm away from my computer: maybe while eating lunch, sitting at the natatorium while my daughter practices for the swim team, in the bathroom, in bed as a little bedtime reading before turning off the light. An electronic copy, while useful for preparing adventure and supplemental material for me (and I appreciate Paizo providing me with Pathfinder pdfs along with my printed copy subscription), is deficient overall for my use.
I've downloaded various 4e adventures off the website in pdf form but I can't read the blasted things. I do most of my game reading in short breaks or when I'm away from my computer: maybe while eating lunch, sitting at the natatorium while my daughter practices for the swim team, in the bathroom, in bed as a little bedtime reading before turning off the light. An electronic copy, while useful for preparing adventure and supplemental material for me (and I appreciate Paizo providing me with Pathfinder pdfs along with my printed copy subscription), is deficient overall for my use.
Crazy Jerome
First Post
1. Print version, or alternately, a second download version, without pictures, perhaps in RTF format, that I could use as the basis for my own notes and edits, then print. (And no, I don't want to deal with reading or editing blasted PDF files when I'm marking it up for my own notes!) Ideally, both versions would be available.
2. Something approaching the quality and tone of the adventures, circa issues #25-36. As far as I'm concerned, it started down hill as the 2E-style railroad plots got longer and more involved, kept sliding with all the experiments (except for side treks), decreased in editing and writing quality leading up to and through the first part of 3E, went into free-fall when Pazio first took over (which is when I finally cancelled), and was just starting to climb back out of that deep hole about six months before WotC took it back. Don't get me wrong--I didn't like the Pazio version yet, but I was encouraged that they finally had it heading in the right direction.
That's the bare minimum, for me even to consider. There is a lot more that would have to be done, probably, to get me to subscribe, but those two are non-negotiable.
2. Something approaching the quality and tone of the adventures, circa issues #25-36. As far as I'm concerned, it started down hill as the 2E-style railroad plots got longer and more involved, kept sliding with all the experiments (except for side treks), decreased in editing and writing quality leading up to and through the first part of 3E, went into free-fall when Pazio first took over (which is when I finally cancelled), and was just starting to climb back out of that deep hole about six months before WotC took it back. Don't get me wrong--I didn't like the Pazio version yet, but I was encouraged that they finally had it heading in the right direction.
That's the bare minimum, for me even to consider. There is a lot more that would have to be done, probably, to get me to subscribe, but those two are non-negotiable.
delericho
Legend
Actually, if they're not going to bring back the print magazines (and, realistically, I don't think they could now, even if they wanted to), then they should probably be looking at better ways to use the capabilities of the electronic medium.
In a print adventure, there is a certain format used for providing information - you have the location map, read-aloud text, details of monsters, and traps, and treasure, and so on. But it's all presented in a linear textual format.
However, in an electronic format, why not use a PowerPoint (or similar) to provide the information? Start with the overall dungeon map, then allow the DM to zoom in on locations with a click, then step through each location, starting with the read-aloud text for the approach from each direction, then showing the various area features (traps, treasure, monsters) as they would most naturally become important, and so on.
Sure, this would make the adventures harder to pull together into a monthly 'magazine', but given that it's not a dead-tree edition, why emulate a dead-tree edition if there is a better way to present the data?
In a print adventure, there is a certain format used for providing information - you have the location map, read-aloud text, details of monsters, and traps, and treasure, and so on. But it's all presented in a linear textual format.
However, in an electronic format, why not use a PowerPoint (or similar) to provide the information? Start with the overall dungeon map, then allow the DM to zoom in on locations with a click, then step through each location, starting with the read-aloud text for the approach from each direction, then showing the various area features (traps, treasure, monsters) as they would most naturally become important, and so on.
Sure, this would make the adventures harder to pull together into a monthly 'magazine', but given that it's not a dead-tree edition, why emulate a dead-tree edition if there is a better way to present the data?
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Well, I will subscribe to DDI for the Dragon content alone, but what would make me appreciate Dungeon more:
o Good content. I haven't looked much into the existing adventures, because I don't know if I will run them or participate as a player in them. But what I'd like to see
- Interesting story. I want more then a series of encounters. NPC motivation should be fleshed out well, locations should be interesting (or at least iconic). I'd like a certain dynamic - suggestions how the NPCs react to the player mucking up their goals, and enough understanding of the NPCs goal and psychology to understand how they act if the PCs go "off-track" (allying with the supposed enemy and stuff like that.)
- Theme should fit the tiers. Don't try to rehash heroic tier "plots". A Paragon adventure should be different from an epic adventure. I think it's even a duty of WotC to do this well - we need a precedent!
- Keep the entire range of levels covered.
- Creative use of existing rules. Skill Challenges, Monsters Design, Diseases, Traps and more. Show us how we can abuse the system to do something that seemed hard to do - or is plain cool.
- Considering story again: Don't hesitate to implement the standard example plots like "Rescue the Princess" - I don't remember ever having played such an adventure! If they seem to simple or predictable, make them part of a bigger adventure - or twist them somewhere.
o Better adventure format. Use the one from the print modules, not the one with the encounters in the back. I hate that.
o Pages designed as handout - on their own page, unkeyed maps, whatever.
o Good content. I haven't looked much into the existing adventures, because I don't know if I will run them or participate as a player in them. But what I'd like to see
- Interesting story. I want more then a series of encounters. NPC motivation should be fleshed out well, locations should be interesting (or at least iconic). I'd like a certain dynamic - suggestions how the NPCs react to the player mucking up their goals, and enough understanding of the NPCs goal and psychology to understand how they act if the PCs go "off-track" (allying with the supposed enemy and stuff like that.)
- Theme should fit the tiers. Don't try to rehash heroic tier "plots". A Paragon adventure should be different from an epic adventure. I think it's even a duty of WotC to do this well - we need a precedent!
- Keep the entire range of levels covered.
- Creative use of existing rules. Skill Challenges, Monsters Design, Diseases, Traps and more. Show us how we can abuse the system to do something that seemed hard to do - or is plain cool.
- Considering story again: Don't hesitate to implement the standard example plots like "Rescue the Princess" - I don't remember ever having played such an adventure! If they seem to simple or predictable, make them part of a bigger adventure - or twist them somewhere.
o Better adventure format. Use the one from the print modules, not the one with the encounters in the back. I hate that.
o Pages designed as handout - on their own page, unkeyed maps, whatever.
El Mahdi
Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
I hit a couple of Mustrum Ridcully's points in my earlier post, but I wanted to second everything he said about plot and story. Most of the adventures I read during the preview I felt were seriously lacking in everything MR just said. With the exception of Ari's Last Breaths of Ashenford, and the Sea Reavers adventure (which I only liked because of the submarine - the adventure itself was just okay), I have not been impressed with the quality of plot and story in the magazine.
The detail should be presented in the way that makes the most sense for use during play. If you present it in a way designed to be used electronically, that's not going to fly with folks who don't use a laptop at the table itself.
Basically, you emulate the dead-tree edition because folks are going to use it like a dead tree edition.
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