D&D 4E What would make you decide against 4e?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I like most things... with the exception of new core books every year. In a few years it will be just as bloated as 3.5 is currently.

I think that's inevitable. The 3.5 splat books weren't labelled "Core", but they were treated as such by most groups.
The D&D rules board was full of people asking for tips on designing certain character ideas, and it was usually explicitely noted when splat books weren't allowed (but non-3rd party was a standard assumption).

My only worry is that this approach might be limiting their options in producing new books, but on the other hand, there is nothing that suggests that these are the only type of books they will publish. (Modules obviously don't fit into the PBH/DMG/MM scheme).
I am not sure if the new yearly core books are supposed to replace books like the Complete series, or if they are supposed to replace books like the Tome of Magic/Book of Nine Swords/Unearthed Arcana which introduced new subsystems or alternative implementations of existing subsystems.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Forget what you post so quickly?

I never posted that I have already decided whether or not I will get on board 4e. You put those words in my mouth. I simply said I would be very displeased if they do certain things. Whether or not the things I like about 4e will outweight the things I don't like remains to be seen.

 

[Li Shenron]

- most if not all mid-level warriors acquiring supernatural or chi-like powers
- a world where endless healing is dispensed by clerics with no true limit on how much they can heal, where wizards and sorcerers can throw bolts of flame as easily as they could throw a punch
- stupidly rigid skill rules (SW Saga comes pretty close to this)
- not including 90% of the monsters in the Basic DM's guide or the AD&D MMI in the first MM
- evil villains being virtually defined by the ability to make multiple immediate reactions in combat
- the reintroduction of the strange PC/NPC/Monster stat block split of yore, where meeting a gang of 2nd level fighters was vastly different than meeting a group of HD 1+1 hobgoblins worth about same XP, in terms of what stats the DM had on hand.

All these things you quoted are something I in fact wouldn't like from the new edition...

But I can live with all of them, except perhaps the lack of traditional monsters.

It's not going to happen, but if the MM is missing many more than just the Frost Giants or basic Zombies without additional powers, and most of it was novelty freaks, then perhaps this could be the only thing I can think of at the moment that would make me avoid the edition entirely.

 

[Psion]

I'm already pretty negative based on the sales model and scrapping of old convention.

But one thing that would totally scuttle any hope of me even pickup up the books and using them on occasion would be a SWSE style skill model. We've already been told the skill system won't be a SWSE clone. How close it lies remains to be seen.

 

[SavageRobby]

I can't think of ANYTHING that will stop me from LOOKING at it; However, if it's no fun, it'll stop me from PLAYING it long-term.

I'm here as well.


Also, to run it, it has to be more fun (purely according to my tastes) than Savage Worlds or my mutated version C&C for me to run it. I'm also hoping it will have lots that I can steal and put into my SW and C&C games (and maybe vice versa).

 

[Jhaelen]

I won't switch if they're overcompensating in their desire to reduce complexities. I also won't switch if they're breaking as many things as they're fixing.

Unfortunately, I also won't be able to switch if no German translation of the books is available. In any case it will take quite a bit of effort on my part to convince my players that switching will be a good idea.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

I haven't seen anything yet that's going to make me not look at 4e.

There is NOTHING they could do to make me NOT LOOK at it. There are two things that could make me not PLAY it.
1) I play it, it stinks, and it's so bad it's not worth "fixing" with house rules.
2) my players tell me they are not interested in changing editions.

 

[Cbas_10]

4E - What would make you decide against 4e?

I've been fairly vocal about not liking what I've seen about 4e, but things are beginning to turn around, and I'm starting to warm to it. However, there are a couple of things that could be deal-breakers. I'm not claiming that this stuff is not in 4e...I obviously have no idea. But...we'll see if the deal-breakers are there in the coming months.

• Lack of options when creating Monsters/Antagonists. I'm not sure what sort of thing they'd use in 4e, but there needs to be an equivalent or good substitution of being able to add templates and class levels to monsters/creatures. That is what sold me on 3e, and is the single feature of the game that gets the most use when creating antagonists and storylines.

• Lack of options for creating characters. Some players like the deeper, more complex characters with cool class features, combining feats and abilities for dramatic effect, and all that. And sometimes we want to simply play a fighter with his longsword and a half-dozen feats that simply add to his ability to swing and do damage without worrying about new tricks, special abilities and all that. Let the people who like Bo9S stuff use it and have fun...let the people who want something simple and basic go thier way, as well.

 

[I'm A Banana]

My biggest fear with 4e (monsters reduced to combat threats and made impossible to convert right out to PC's) still won't stop me from getting it. I can fix that, if that's the only problem.

I had to fix so much more in 2e it wasn't even funny.

4e looks like it's embracing philosophies I generally approve of. That said, I'm still making a 4e Planescape game (already thinking about it!), and I'm still a fan of more cosmopolitan fantasy (so points of light is of limited appeal to me), and I'm still going to kudge together the useful bits into FFZ, and, by and large, do what I've done to 3e already.

As long as I have my typin' finger and a brain, 4e can't kill what I love about this game.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Right now I'm pretty happy with the 4E mechanics, so really the only thing that would turn me off of it would be an utterly alien design that just didn't inspire me to play.