What would WotC need to do to win back the disenchanted?

[El Mahdi]

Why would you expect WotC guys spend their time in the section for games that they do no longer support and/or make?

Compiling and adding to what Jeff_Wilder and Jasperak said:

• Customer goodwill and public relations boost - something they could definitely use and is a commodity unable to be monetarily quantified, but yet extremely valuable.
• A group of consumers you are currently gaining no revenue from.
  • DDI content - For a minimal outlay (I didn't say cheap, but minimal due to existing page structures), you gain a consistent, renewing (monthly) revenue source from people who are currently spending none of their money on your products.
  • Content in Dungeon and Dragon can be from fan submissions - further decreasing financial outlay and use of resources (specifically WotC employees) - almost a situation of WotC gaining something for nothing.
  • Impulse or occasional puchases of current products that very likely will not occur without exposure to those products through DDI.
  • Sale of older edition products in electronic format - the products are already scanned and the sales infrastructure is already in place. Those that prefer a pirated copy already have one. The only people buying these products are the ones who really want them. That's real money sitting around doing nothing, and not in WotC's pocket, that for almost no initial outlay would immediately start going to them. Damn near money for nothing also. (I understand WotC logic for removing pdf's of current products...I don't agree, but I do understand...but their logic doesn't hold up when applied to older edition products...the pirated copies are already out there...they've closed the barn door after the horses got out, and are ignoring the sounds of hooves outside of the horses who have returned...)
• You've added extra customers to your "captured" customer base for when you do release such apps (possibly for extra subscription price) as the Virtual Table Top and Character Visualizer. Both of which would probably be fairly universal (read: editionless) apps that all customers could find a value in. It's a lot easier to sell to a customer you already have, than try to "win" them back. Right now, after numerous threads like this, WotC has a pretty good idea what it would take to get these customers back. The longer they wait, the harder it is to reverse as those customers drift further and further away (to other games).

But perhaps what would be more interesting, is reasons why WotC shouldn't spend some time or resources on older products? Perhaps you can provide your take on why it's a bad idea? Because I honestly can't see a good reason not to go after these other customers...

 

[carmachu]

The newer 4e books are getting back some of that readability, thank goodness. Underdark, Plane Above, and even MM3 are all pretty good.

I still can't sit and read power lists, though, any more than I could sit and read spell lists in 1e-3.5e. Glance through them, sure, but read? No way. Not unless I'm working on a character.

-O

Couldnt tell you about the newer books, they lost me trying long before then. But MM1 was a horrible read, as was the players book.

 

[billd91]

[tangent]You know, I'm really impressed with the number of posters participating in this discussion with early-ish join dates on ENWorld but without post counts under a thousand. Looks like this thread has generated a lot of interests among less active posters, long-time viewers. It's great to see a thread sparking that sort of participation. Good discussion.[/tangent]

 

[Mark CMG]

I don't think WotC is going to find people quick to jump back on the customer bandwagon without a good amount of actual releases out and proving their direction. I doubt a few previews and the usual hype is going to be enough, particularly with those people who bought into past books and found after playing that they were disappointed with how things turned out. I suspect the once bitten twice shy crowd will be sharp enough to wait and see how things actual develop after a few releases.

 

[Ranes]

I think that this thread is evidence that if WOTC sells something that its former customers want, then some of them can be won back. As for D&D, we will see if Essentials tries to re-embrace D&D's roots. Only time will tell.

Essentials won't win me back, even if it tries to tweak my nostalgia gland. Third edition suited me very well. I'm unwilling to abandon the significant investment I made in what to my mind were great third edition books that will never run out of mileage.

I don't begrudge WotC anything, including 4e. If they were to bring out more great 3e material in print, PDF or electronic form, I'd happily buy it.

 

[Obryn]

Couldnt tell you about the newer books, they lost me trying long before then. But MM1 was a horrible read, as was the players book.

Yep, agreed on both PHB1 and MM1. They were very functional at the table, but awful to read. I think the plan was to offload most of the fluff to Dragon and Dungeon, and you can kinda see that in earlier issues. What ended up happening - possibly predictably - was that people preferred the books to have readable fluff, and preferred to use DDI for those bare mechanics. I was just giving you an FYI that, in this respect at least, WotC listened to feedback from players and adjusted their future releases accordingly.

-O

 

[Kaiyanwang]

Edited to add, on a more serious note: More to the point, 4E is a massive batch of experiments in new mechanics and approaches to the game. I'm not sure that's how it was intended, but it's what happened. And as with any massive batch of experiments, some turned out well, and some... not so much.

If true, it would be quite odd: they had a lot of space for experimentation with the late 3.5 (just think to new subsystems like ToB). One should expect 4th edition like a fixed version, a sum of what came out to be the best, already experimented in 3.5. Does not seems to me that WotC introduced 4th edition as a new, fresh system prone to experimentation. It was introduced as a modular system, everything core, more or less the same rules for every classes... and so on.

At the cost of a sacred cows killing to accomplish this.

What happened? What's this need to look back with essentials?

So hard core gamers would rather the entire rpg hobby wither and die rather than have the gateway system that is D&D be actually playable by all those pesky new and casual gamers.
Brilliant.

Absolutely not. But, to introduce people to the hobby, my skill as a DM counts, but a ruleset that supports my gaming style helps, too.

If I enjoy the system, I'm a better player, and i can transmit my love to new future gamers. Discussing about a game to make it more enjoyable is for the good of the game in the future.

Essentials won't win me back, even if it tries to tweak my nostalgia gland. Third edition suited me very well. I'm unwilling to abandon the significant investment I made in what to my mind were great third edition books that will never run out of mileage.

I don't begrudge WotC anything, including 4e. If they were to bring out more great 3e material in print, PDF or electronic form, I'd happily buy it.

For me is the same. I wish wotc made some Fey/Giant monster book (similar to Draconomicon or Lords of Madness) before the switch

 

[TheAuldGrump]

So hard core gamers would rather the entire rpg hobby wither and die rather than have the gateway system that is D&D be actually playable by all those pesky new and casual gamers.
Brilliant.

Three cheers for empty hyperbole.

1. WotC is not the industry. It is the biggest company in that industry, but by no means the whole of that industry - it will survive with or without WotC.

2. WotC has done a good deal of work towards divorcing themselves from that industry. WotC burned a great deal of goodwill with the way they handled the change between editions.

3. Letting WotC wither and die because of that brave effort on their part seems like justice to me. They were the ones who destroyed their own goodwill, alienated the companies that supported their game, and a large chunk of the folks who played their games.

4. But even if they turn into dust and blow away with the morning breeze, the RPG industry will continue on. Stumble, maybe, but continue on. Someone else will pick up the banner. There are certainly other entry level games than 4e.

5. No matter how much they may be suffering for the lack of the $50 or so a month I spend on gaming, I very much doubt that WotC will wither and die for its lack.

The Auld Grump

 

[DaveMage]

I don't think WotC is going to find people quick to jump back on the customer bandwagon without a good amount of actual releases out and proving their direction. I doubt a few previews and the usual hype is going to be enough, particularly with those people who bought into past books and found after playing that they were disappointed with how things turned out. I suspect the once bitten twice shy crowd will be sharp enough to wait and see how things actual develop after a few releases.

Also, 4E has become cost-prohibitive to a completist like me. Unless I buy as the game is released, I can't afford to go back and pick up everything.

5E is the next time I'll take a look at the D&D ruleset.

 

[Pseudonym]

I suspect the once bitten twice shy crowd will be sharp enough to wait and see how things actual develop after a few releases.

Yeah, true, but I bought Magic of Incarnum and Weapons of Legacy anyway.