What would WotC need to do to win back the disenchanted?

[Doug McCrae]

Now that is a good analogy, Mallus. I much prefer it to all the ones about food.

 

[Umbran]

I am not sure that anything done to the game itself is apt to bring back many (perhaps even most) of the disenchanted. Why not? Because they probably aren't paying much attention to current D&D.

Folks who tried 4e, and found it lacking, have had a couple years now to move on to something else. Whatever they found to do instead (have a kid, take up toy trains, or Pathfinder, or whatever) will be their focus now. It will take big noise to gain their attention back again - release of a new edition could do it, for example. But just making a few modest changes to the current rules probably won't do the trick.

 

[TheYeti1775]

Costs of providing PDFs

The most recent number of The Monthly - a moderately leftist Australian culture/society magazine - has an article by Malcolm Knox on e-publishing and its effect on the publishing and bookselling industry. Knox writes:

The mindset [that if you're reading it on a screen then it must be free] is quanitatively wrong: the costs of digitisation, file conversion and file management are high . . . One reason e-books were so slow to take hold was that publishers could not make money with the addition of the estimated $400 per title it cost them to digitise.​

Obviously, some of that work has already been done in the case of the WotC and TSR PDFs.

The cost arguement would make sense if it weren't for two factors.
1. As stated most of the old works are already digitized.
2. The new works are already digitized as well when they are created. The cost is already eaten into the current price point of the the dead tree copies.

I really haven't followed WotC for a while. But I stopped playing D&D right about the time 4e came out. I started to get the feeling that WoTC didn't really seem to care much about D&D and simply wanted to lure new gamers into the fold. Several of the WotC people I met at Gencon were outright jerks and I just basically moved on.

I'd like to get the feeling that they are about the franchise and they care about gaming. Remake D&D and rename 4e "D&D, the Boardgame".

That's just how I feel. I'm not stating facts or figures, so it can obviously be argued, and I know there are tons of people who feel differently.

Also, clean up all the errata on the first publication or sell me a PDF that can be patched.

I'd love to get back into D&D, but would almost assuredly play 3.5 or Pathfinder. Paizo seems to have more of a passion for the game.

--CT

I would like to know the who's and circumstances as well.
Short of when I've been an a-hole on the boards and even than, I've yet to have any WotC employee be an outright jerk to me.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I am not sure that anything done to the game itself is apt to bring back many (perhaps even most) of the disenchanted. Why not? Because they probably aren't paying much attention to current D&D.

Folks who tried 4e, and found it lacking, have had a couple years now to move on to something else. Whatever they found to do instead (have a kid, take up toy trains, or Pathfinder, or whatever) will be their focus now. It will take big noise to gain their attention back again - release of a new edition could do it, for example. But just making a few modest changes to the current rules probably won't do the trick.

I believe Umbran is 100% correct here.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Thats some accusation. But lets hear some names and what happened, because otherwise, I am gonna call nonsense on that story.

Let me get this straight. You're calling him a liar if he can't give you specific names? Really?

This happened to me, too. GenCon, two years ago, my buddy and I sat down for a demo of 4E, wanting to play it before passing judgment on it. The two guys running the demo were disengaged, dismissive, and rude, and clearly wanted to be doing anything but what they were doing. They were wearing WotC badges, but not volunteer badges, but I didn't get their names.

Now please, call me a liar and let's see if you can get a vacation from the thread.

 

[Umbran]

All you folks engaged in an internet testosterone contest are apt to get vacations if you aren't careful.

 

[ggroy]

It will take big noise to gain their attention back again - release of a new edition could do it, for example. But just making a few modest changes to the current rules probably won't do the trick.

At this point in time, I doubt a new edition will do much to gain back their attention, considering 4E has only been around for two years.

 

[DaveMage]

At this point in time, I doubt a new edition will do much to gain back their attention, considering 4E has only been around for two years.

Should a "5E" ever come out, I will certainly be interested in seeing what it offers.

It would likely have to be very different from 4E and more similar to the other editions to be worthy of my purchasing it.

I still think, though, that the next "edition" might be a board game with expansions. I'll be interested to hear how the Ravenloft board game and the other one (which I don't remember the name) play and if people that do not like 4E like them or not....

 

[TheYeti1775]

I am not sure that anything done to the game itself is apt to bring back many (perhaps even most) of the disenchanted. Why not? Because they probably aren't paying much attention to current D&D.

Folks who tried 4e, and found it lacking, have had a couple years now to move on to something else. Whatever they found to do instead (have a kid, take up toy trains, or Pathfinder, or whatever) will be their focus now. It will take big noise to gain their attention back again - release of a new edition could do it, for example. But just making a few modest changes to the current rules probably won't do the trick.

Yes a 5th edition would bring many back for a try at least for the initial release. Just to see if things changed for the better (in their opinion) or not.

The problem with a new edition release is the risking of disenchanting the current base they do have now with 4E. If they step too far back than they lose all those who are in love with the current edition. If they step too far forward, you run the same risk and take yourself even further from the ones who stopped with 3.5E.

The one theme outside of the arguing over edition changes that has reoccurred throughout the thread is ELECTRONIC SUPPORT for all editions.
Weather this is in selling PDF's or putting old editions into the DDI/Builders. It keeps cropping up within the thread.
I believe WotC could really seize the initiative on this and run with it. The biggiest worry is their ROI on it, it has to be break even or better to get them to consider it. The reason I say break even is because if even 25% of the disenchanted come back into the fold, that is that much more you can advertise your new releases too. That is that many more that will subscribe to your DDI.
Heck even Diaglo has chimed in with how to get him back. Personally if I was a WotC employee I would take the initiative on that one and get that letter.

While many of the requests will be thrown out just on silliness or out of hand. There are quite a few gems within this twenty some pages, even if half of it is dribble and triades.

I could honestly say the electronic measures (PDF/Builders) will not anger a single WotC customer, weather previous current or future one. It only creates more. No one can dispute that. It's a question of what does it cost?
The Builder additions are a one time cost, the previous editions are set in stone and are never changing again. Short of me hitting the Powerball and MegaMillions on the same day and having a wild monkeyhair and buying WotC they will never be 'republished'.
So how much does a contractor cost WotC to add in previous editions to the Builders.
Next how much does it cost to all PDF sales again (all editions)?
I bet DriveThru and the rest of them would be more than willing to do so again.

I want to be a WotC customer, but as the theme of the thread has gone.
SELL ME SOMETHING I WANT TO BUY.
That is the key to it all. While I can play 4E, I've learned enough about it that I found it wasn't an edition to my liking/style. I still want things that WotC has the power to supply.

Even the User-submitted articles of previous editions doesn't cost WotC much more than the hosting and the quick proof-read of the article with the adding of the NOT A WOTC ARTICLE disclaimer within their DDI.

 

[Umbran]

At this point in time, I doubt a new edition will do much to gain back their attention, considering 4E has only been around for two years.

On the contrary, it being released so soon would likely get their attention - it would be pretty shocking, and would get talked about a great deal in gaming circles.

Would they buy - I agree, probably not. But it'd get their attention