What would you do with this oathbreaking paladin?

[BEKirby]

I'm a bit unclear on the timing of events, but here's my take:

If I'd been GM'ing this one, and the Paladin had offered up the arrow before they'd gone through a lot of give and take with the Dragon, then heck yeah, the Paladin should be punished. The Paladin is not only offering up a big bargaining chip relatively early in the process, but he (or she) is also depriving his party of one of the more powerful weapons they could use against the Dragon should negotiations fail.

I don't think the Paladin should be stripped of their class, however. But they should definitely lose their powers until they make atonement both to the person who gave them the arrow and their God.

My $.02...

 

[BSF]

Even if he were a 20th level Paladin. He needs information the Blue Dragon has, and I suppose it's for a greater good, otherwise not even a regular Fighter would be talking to an evil dragon...
If he slays it... no info...
As someone pointed out, Lawful Good isn't Stupid Stupid
And negotiating is not associating.
What if the Blue Dragon had ten villagers and asked to the paladin for the arrow in exchange of their lives?
Al those moral things are tricky questions, and I don't see the paladin action something that should be punished

This is *exactly* why it is important that you have Player/DM communication _before_ this ever comes up. It is perfectly valid to interpret the Code, as written in the PHB/SRD, in any number of ways. This is one of those very sticky issues where different interpretations by the player and the DM can cause hard feelings.

Personally, I find the Code of Conduct, as written, to be rather silly. In my games, I discuss with my players what they want to play and we will create a Code of Conduct that is relevant to the campaign, the character, and the game so we all have fun. It is even possible for two Paladins with very similar backgrounds to have two different Codes of Conduct. It takes a little work, but the results are well worth that effort up front.

Now, this is not to say that the PC won't ever have hard decisions to make. However, when the hard decisions do come up, the player can make decisions based on solid expectations of what will happen. I have never had a player scream foul for the results of their Paladin's actions because we work this out before it ever comes up.

Hyp - Should I assume that all of your Gold dragons are Ancient? Yeah, I know dragons have good Fort saves. It almost make you wonder why anybody would bother to make an Arrow of Dragon Slaying. Still, I guess that 5% chance of a Natural 1 on the Fort save is worth something. I remember when arrows of dragon slaying were cool and evoked images of Bard the Bowman taking down Smaug above Laketown. But, that is a completely different topic...

 

[Matafuego]

Well BardStephen, now I agree with you 100%
Even with the nowadays boring arrows of slaying, but maybe he used a homebrewed arrow so that's why I didn't say anything about it, I know I would use a homebrewed myself if it ever was the case.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hyp - Should I assume that all of your Gold dragons are Ancient?

The Blue Dragon in question is Ancient, so if he needs to use human magic to beat up anything less, he's a wuss and should get kicked out of the Blue Dragon Club.

Remember, Blues don't retreat because they consider it "cowardly"... so their reputation is important to them. Use an Arrow of Slaying against a dragon younger and weaker than himself, and all the other Blues would laugh at him.

So yeah, I figure that your hypothetical Gold is an Ancient...

... and regardless of a Natural 1, the Arrow still won't beat a Death Ward.

-Hyp.

 

[Numion]

The Paladin is trying to negotiate with an Evil creature that should be detroyed.

Should the Paladin destroy everything evil? I think not. Every Detect Evil radar activation would end in a massacre if done within a city.

Paladins shouldn't follow the "activate detect evil radar - engage - destroy" procedure, and thus negotiations with evil NPCs and creatures should definately be allowed.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Should the Paladin destroy everything evil? I think not. Every Detect Evil radar activation would end in a massacre if done within a city.

Paladinbots, ho!

-Hyp.

 

[Ylis]

I, personally, would look at it this way:
He was sworn not to sell it. He didn't.....however, the reasoning behind him not selling it was the fear of it getting into the hands of baddies that might use it against good dragons. He gave it to a bad dragon, who most certainly will use it against good dragons.

Therefore, since he didn't *exactly* break his oath, but did act a little foolishly, I would simply take away one of his paladin abilities. Let him be punished by his deity for foolishness and taught a little humility by, say, taking his spellcasting abilities away. Or make it where he is unable to call his mount. This way, you can always give the ability back when he's redeemed himself. Paladinhood, as a whole, though, is not able to be brought back.

Of course, my evil GMing would twist said punishment even more: I'd take his mount away, and, given his obvious love for said blue dragon, I would say that anytime he tried to call his mount, said dragon would appear - grumpy, angry, and unmanageable....but not necessarily hungry.

Just a few thoughts....

 

[Sejs]

I, personally, would look at it this way:
He was sworn not to sell it. He didn't.....however, the reasoning behind him not selling it was the fear of it getting into the hands of baddies that might use it against good dragons. He gave it to a bad dragon, who most certainly will use it against good dragons.

I've gotta agree with Hypersmurf on this one - any blue dragon, particularly an ancient one, that has to resort to an arrow of dragon slaying to fight others of his kind would get laughed off the playground.

It would be the equavelant of threatening to tell your mom on a bully.


Frankly, in my oppinion DMs who knee-jerk gank a paladin's status for minor infractions are practically begging to get told "Okay, fine - I cash in my paladin levels for blackguard ones on the spot."

But maybe that's just me.

^_^

 

[Silveras]

This seems to be the key part to me:

This paladin makes him swear that he will not sell it, because then it could be bought by bad guys and used to kill good dragons. They must either use it themselves to kill bad dragons, or give it to other good creatures. Got it? Seemed simply to me.

If that stipulation (bolded) was part of the oath in the first place, the Paladin has directly violated the oath. Regardless of how the rest of the interpretation of the code of conduct (aiding evil, negotiating with evil, slaying evil) works out, this would be the key. If this is the understanding (as it seems from this: )

The other party members did not forget. In fact, one tryed to stop him, but there was no time.

then the Paladin has certainly done something rash (i.e., Chaotic). That should cost him at least some of his abilities until atonement is made.

However, it does all come down to how clear it was that the oath was made on that basis.

In general, I agree with BardStephenFox regarding the need to work out the details and/or meaning of the Code of Conduct beforehand.

 

[Matafuego]

I hadn't noticed the "but there was no time"
Was the paladin alone with the blue dragon or what? I don't get it.