What would you do with this oathbreaking paladin?

[Oni]

Frankly I think you went overboard, you were way too harsh on the player and should most definately make it a temporary thing.

Second I can imagine that's about the safest thing to do with the arrow logically. Give it to a good creature maybe it'll get lost and wind up in the wrong hands, but I can't imagine why a dragon would keep that hellish thing around at all.

 

[jasper]

You put the guy in a near no win situation. dragon slaying arrow and having to break bread with evil dragon. a small technical foul if the great good is being serve. I would go with no cha bonus saves for each day he has a bonuse.
I would have offered the dragon not to use on him if he gave us the info.

 

[diaglo]

If I'm a god, I'm sending an angel to hound his ass.

the paladin should commit seppuku.

 

[Snoweel]

Or at least poke himself in the eye.

 

[Czhorat]

Memories....

You said he's been carting this thing around for years. How much real (as opposed to game time) is that? If he has any life outside of the game he very easilly might have forgotten the details about how he aquired the arrow and what oath he swore while his character clearly should remember. I'm usually not a big fan of a DM steering his players' actions, but a quick reminder along the lines of "You swore to Sir Galahad that you'd not sell that or let that fall into evil hands" wouldn't be too far out of line.

Otherwise, I agree with those who find this transgression not worthy of immediate irrevocable removal of Paladinhood. Make him atone if you must. Perhaps you could even have him give away one of his magical items to make up for the dragon-slaying arrow he carelessly gave away. Just a thought.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I'd have reminded him of the oath he sword about the Arrow. If he had done it anyway, and especially if he'd tried to argue "but I'm not selling it", I'd drop the ex-Paladin status on him very quickly.

He didn't violate just the spirit of the oath-- he violated the letter of it, since he had sworn to either use it fighting evil dragons or to give it to another good force. An ancient Blue Dragon is not a good force.

Oathbreaking is a very serious violation of the Paladin's Code-- and I'm the guy who usually argues that it's acceptable for Paladins to lie when they have to. Not only did he swear an oath and break it, he swore that oath to another Paladin, and broke it directly in just about the worst way possible. He just guaranteed that arrow is going to be used for evil purposes.

 

[Arnwyn]

Did the player give any justification to his actions? When my players create paladin characters, I'm always interested in hearing justifications to their actions - since I'm no mind-reader, I want to hear what they're thinking before I make any decision as to the consequences of their actions.

Based on the info above, I agree with the "punishing" of the character by dropping his paladinhood (no excuse for oathbreaking), but I'd probably only make it temporary until atonement... (maybe in hindsight, a quick reminder of his oath would have been a good idea, or not speed the action along so quickly for there to be "no time" - there's always time if the DM says there is).

I wouldn't be too worried about the dragon getting the arrow, though. It's useless to him, and - just like Treebore above says - it would be highly unlikely that the dragon would give such an item to anyone; I'm thinking that a Blue Dragon would have some trust issues...

 

[Steverooo]

Taking the PC's Paladinhood is just too much!

He didn't remember the promise.
Someone else did, and tried to stop him, but "there wasn't time".
De-Paladinizing him is permanent. There's no coming back, from that, and it will lead to hard feelings, that will damage your campaign.

On the other hand, he did OFFER to break his oath... He says "my guy would have remembered", and I'd go with that, myself. You or the other PC reminded him, and he says "Okay, I didn't do that, then!" End of story. Even if he did it, "too fast to stop", I wouldn't hit him with anything more severe than a reduction to 10 WIS (no spells, and a lessening of some Paladin abilities) until he was shrived by his pater (Atonement).

Taking the PC's Paladinhood is just too much!

 

[BSF]

You know, when I read the thread, it didn't even occur to me that the OP might have meant a permanent stripping of Paladinhood. Obviously, my terminology doesn't match what everyone else seems to mean. Oops!

OK, when a paladin has a transgression against their CoC, I would tend to strip them of powers _temporarily_. It takes a very big, willful slide to have the Paladin completely Fall from Grace. While breaking and oath is bad in this case, it does not warrent a fall from grace. The Paladin should have to attone and can restore his powers.

The stripping of powers is a sign. Paladins derive their power from their conviction (since not every Paladin must worship a god) and their adherance to the CoC. When you violate your Code, you lose that conviction (even if you don't notice) and you lose that mystical touch to power. You must reaffirm your committment, your conviction, before you recover your powers.

Obviously, a good deal of my campaign is bleeding over into this post. But, this is why I work with my players to develop the CoC for their character. Actually, I try to work with all of my players to establish a lot of framework for their characters so I can find ways to put them in the spotlight at times. But, the Paladin's CoC is one of those "must discuss" issues in my mind.

 

[RuminDange]

I'd have to say simply....OVER REACTION.
First off an arrow of dragon slaying, not even a greater arrow of dragon slaying is worthless unless you are hunting wyrmlings and even then it could be an easy save for them.
Second. NO WIN SITUATION. You placed the Paladin in a situation to deal with an known Evil dragon. Did you want him to fight it? If he fought the dragon and killed it, no information. If he deals with it in any fashion, gives it anything that could be useful to it, then he has dealt with evil and by most peoples (not all) interpretation he has violated his code of conduct to not deal with evil. Whether you give the dragon gold or a +1 longsword any of it can be used for evil purposes. Even giving the dragon a Holy weapon would do it even though the dragon or it’s minions would not be able to use it, the forces of good would be denied it.
I could see it now....
Paladin: "I pay the 1gp to bartender for the nights stay in the inn."
DM: "You're paladin hood has been stripped from you for dealing with evil. You have supplied gold to evil to be used for evil purposes"
Paladin:” WHAT!!!!!"
DM: "You can detect evil. You should have gone elsewhere to stay for the night."
Paladin: "The next closest inn is 3 days ride!!!"
Player of Paladin: "Screw this and **&$ you I'm outta here!!"

I’d have to agree any dragon would more than likely destroyed said arrow on principal then use it or give it a minion. How comfortable would a human really be if he an arrow of human slaying? Is he going to keep it around just in case or snap it and move on?

If you want the players to deal with evil to get information then you set the paladins up for failure. If you want them to kill every evil creature they come up to then you lose out of good story and role-playing possibilities.

I once did this type of thing, I learned from it. I had a Cavalier in 2E come up upon the world’s best known assassin in an alley; I meant it to be a role-playing situation and something the cavalier could learn information from. The assassin was well-known and hard to catch or kill and used very recognizable items that defined him. The cavalier recognized him and attacked. Even though the cavalier was like 5th level and the Assassin was around 18th. The cavalier was dead after a few shots from the assassin’s bow (his trademark item) and the player was furious. He couldn’t retreat and couldn’t by his code allow the assassin to get away while he was alive. My mistake cost me a good player and character in the campaign, all because we viewed the code differently. The player lost interest after that and toyed with few characters but finally left the group after causing a few problems elsewhere in the campaign.

Is killing evil because it is evil good or evil in itself?
If the evil guy is doing nothing, just has a bad attitude in life in general, and paladin kills him because he is evil, has the paladin committed a good act or an evil act?

Just my opinion of course. But paladins and any character with a code of conduct had best be well understood equally and by both player and DM or someone is going to over react.

RD