D&D 5E What would you miss about 5E if you were playing AD&D?

[TheCosmicKid]

People like to talk about high-level wizards completely eclipsing fighters, but it was never really true without multiclassing or dual-classing involved. When you have only 35 HP between you and death, 70 HP on a friendly suit of armor is much appreciated as a way to buy time. In other words, glass cannons always appreciate friendly tanks.

But tanks generally hope to be more than just a speed bump in front of the glass cannons.

 

[cbwjm]

But tanks generally hope to be more than just a speed bump in front of the glass cannons.

Which they were since they would be high level too, have multiple attacks, and likely have decent AC and magical weapons that let them carve through enemies.

Sent from my SM-G925I using EN World mobile app

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

But tanks generally hope to be more than just a speed bump in front of the glass cannons.

Yeah, they generally hope to kill lots of monsters, get lots of treasure, and buy lots of beverages, female attention, and toys. Just like the glass cannons do.

They have a better chance of actually doing so when they work together instead of solo.

 

[schnee]

Huh? I love AD&D and play it often. It's my favorite edition (specifically 1e)

5E Sunday for us maybe AD&D on Monday

OK, sorry, I was having a bad day and that was snarky.

The 'racism' I talked about - PHB pages 10-15.

- Racial score limits, where you can never ever be as smart or as wise or charismatic or whatever.
- Racial animosity, where the players are given rules on how to treat certain races with hostility.
- Racial level limits, where being born of a certain race means you're never as good.

I grew up in a state where 'the N word' flowed freely. I always hated it, but it was the reality, and stuff happened like Half-Orcs talking Ebonics and dressing like gang-bangers. I've had a few DMs used those charts to bully players, and then when called out on it, 'it's the rules, man!'. The few black nerds I knew played a few times and didn't return.

I can see where the intent wasn't to be that way at all, but it was made by people in a bubble. Due to this game being unleashed on kids in their early teens, it gave free license to some of the absolutely atrocious behavior of kids that age. That plus the more acceptable and widespread in-your-face racism of the time, the consequences that followed were occasionally quite bad.

I like how 5E gives a bit of a suggestion of the fact that Drow are feared by reputation, and leaves the mechanics out, so (frankly) it's a lot easier for players to just blow it off and be whatever they want in whatever kind of world they want. I like that. No charts to ignore.

I think the rulebooks have caught up to the fact that our hobby is a lot more diverse now, and even if it's a 'little thing' to most, and few tables ever used dice rolls for that stuff, I'm glad the game isn't making it a thing at all.

 

[Zardnaar]

OK, sorry, I was having a bad day and that was snarky.

The 'racism' I talked about - PHB pages 10-15.

- Racial score limits, where you can never ever be as smart or as wise or charismatic or whatever.
- Racial animosity, where the players are given rules on how to treat certain races with hostility.
- Racial level limits, where being born of a certain race means you're never as good.

I grew up in a state where 'the N word' flowed freely. I always hated it, but it was the reality, and stuff happened like Half-Orcs talking Ebonics and dressing like gang-bangers. I've had a few DMs used those charts to bully players, and then when called out on it, 'it's the rules, man!'. The few black nerds I knew played a few times and didn't return.

I can see where the intent wasn't to be that way at all, but it was made by people in a bubble. Due to this game being unleashed on kids in their early teens, it gave free license to some of the absolutely atrocious behavior of kids that age. That plus the more acceptable and widespread in-your-face racism of the time, the consequences that followed were occasionally quite bad.

I like how 5E gives a bit of a suggestion of the fact that Drow are feared by reputation, and leaves the mechanics out, so (frankly) it's a lot easier for players to just blow it off and be whatever they want in whatever kind of world they want. I like that. No charts to ignore.

I think the rulebooks have caught up to the fact that our hobby is a lot more diverse now, and even if it's a 'little thing' to most, and few tables ever used dice rolls for that stuff, I'm glad the game isn't making it a thing at all.

Eh its only fantasy races, I can take it or leave it.

 

[Barolo]

You may find the following proposal of interest, if you don't mind me linking to my own blog:

I don't mind at all. Thank you very much for sharing, this is actually very well thought and mixes well with the game rules in general. The restriction introduced by a reaction is an interesting one. I am seriously thinking about adopting this mechanic.

By the way, I have some questions about your implementation. Do you use the magic resistance trait as if it was an ability check based solely on charisma or do you choose a score that you find more suitable for a monster? Do you also consider giving a monster magic resistance trait but not giving it proficiency on the trait(and the monster would default to the attribute)?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I don't mind at all. Thank you very much for sharing, this is actually very well thought and mixes well with the game rules in general. The restriction introduced by a reaction is an interesting one. I am seriously thinking about adopting this mechanic.

By the way, I have some questions about your implementation. Do you use the magic resistance trait as if it was an ability check based solely on charisma or do you choose a score that you find more suitable for a monster? Do you also consider giving a monster magic resistance trait but not giving it proficiency on the trait(and the monster would default to the attribute)?

Choose a score suitable to the monster.

As a rough rule of thumb: monsters that have spellcasting base their Magic Resistance on their spellcasting ability if they have it (thus, demons use Charisma). If the monster originally had Magic Resistance or Legendary Resistance, make MR equal to their spellcasting ability + proficiency bonus (this is partly a convenience choice so I can just read their MR right off their stat block, because it's equal to their saving throw). If the monster originally had both Magic Resistance AND Legendary Resistance, or is notable for being almost immune to magic (like an Illithid), give them spellcasting ability plus double proficiency bonus (essentially, Magic Resistance Expertise). I can imagine weak-ish monsters like low-level demons (CR 4 and under) for which I would not give them a proficiency bonus at Magic Resistance at all, and of course for the lowest level demons like lemures I would probably not give them MR at all.

But in the usual case it's convenient for me to just give ability + proficiency, and it works out okay. E.g. Erinyes gets Magic Resistance (+8) and is mostly immune to cantrips like Eldritch Blast--but since it costs her reaction, avoiding an Eldritch Blast is mutually exclusive with a Parry to avoid a melee attack. I could see an argument that this actually makes the Erinyes too strong against things like Wall of Force, and that it might be more fair for her to have only +4 (Cha only, no prof) and therefore a 50% chance at resisting a Wall of Force, instead of a 70% chance--but I haven't done anything about that yet. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

[Greg Benage]

My ideal game would be such a mix of design elements, it gets kind of complicated.

* I like 5e action economy. I think we got somewhere close in actual play with 1e house rules and just winging it, but the structure is useful in 5e.
* I greatly prefer the spellcasting system in 5e; I don't care for the design of some of the actual spells (see below).
* I like all the PC-side detail; I prefer class abilities and feats to the magic item Christmas tree.
* I dislike all the DM-side detail, by which I really mean monster detail. Kobolds don't need special abilities. DMs can use "pack tactics" without an ability.
* I miss save-or-suck, save-or-die, and no-save-and-suck (level drain). When monsters have a special ability, they should really matter, be defining.
* I like bounded accuracy; I dislike hp bloat.
* I would not miss death saves and the revivify spell.

I may experiment with Making Monsters Great Again + Meat-Grinder Mode in ToA.