What would you put in 1D&D from 4E?

[Vaalingrade]

I don't understand why they are so cold on new classes... 3.5 and 4e each had a ton of extra classes

New Classes need resources and work.

Remember: 5e was originally supposed to camp the Trademark so they could make a movie and wafflemakers and stuff with the logo. Just drip feed enough content to keep the core on the hook. They very much broadcast that it was being put up on blocks with the whole 'evergreen edition' thing.

Then the Internet happened to them and things took a turn.

 

[Bolares]

I don't understand why they are so cold on new classes... 3.5 and 4e each had a ton of extra classes

yeah... and it was a FIGHT to get them to make an artificer class for Eberron.... They tried it as a wizard subclass and that was just bad.

 

[Vael]

I don't understand why they are so cold on new classes... 3.5 and 4e each had a ton of extra classes

It's been explained, one of the problems is that a lot of new classes were left to wither with no further support. Second, class bloat. Third, they want the core classes to have a strong archetype and a lot of the other classes felt too niche or were stepping on the core's toes.

And ... I don't disagree with the logic, one of my hopes, which the playtest seems to be bearing out, is that a lot of effort is being put into future-proofing OneDnD so it is easier to expand and add new classes to. Heck, that's why they've consolidated the spell lists to Arcane, Divine and Primal.

I feel like 5e was way too conservative, in response to the prior editions, I'd hope OneDnD corrects for that and finds a comfortable middle.

 

[mellored]

Not from 4e but..

"A creature is then immune to this effect for 1 day"

It's a great way to limit some maneuvers that feels less artificial. Put it on stunning strike or a come and get it and it's something you can just do, but not spam.

 

[cbwjm]

I'd like to see greater starting hit points and healing surges, it was a shame they did away with them. Something I've done in my games, especially for level 1 starts is double starting hit points from class, so a fighter has 20 hit points + constitution modifier at level 1. I haven't used healing surges but I think a number equal to half your hit die size at level 1 + Constitution score would be good. This would give the fighter surges equal to 5 + con mod while a wizard would only have 3 + con mod.

I use the bloodied condition in my games to trigger effects and think it would be worth bringing into the base game.

I sort of use monster type as well, but normally that's just as a template to modify a monster, like soldier giving better AC, Brute more hit points but less accuracy, etc.

I wouldn't mind more weapon keywords to diversify weapons a bit. So many rogues just stick to rapier because it has the highest die size that can be used with sneak attack, would be nice if other weapons had a smaller die size but some sort of weapon keyword that would make the rogue player at least consider them.

Themes,originally from Dark Sun 4e, could also be a nice customisation option similar to the supernatural gifts from Theros so we already have something similar in the game.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I don't understand why they are so cold on new classes... 3.5 and 4e each had a ton of extra classes

Look at treantmonks new video. Probably the structure at least of the spell lists makes writing new spellcasters quite annoying.
So a good foundation will probably pave the way for a new priest/warrior/mage.

 

[mamba]

I don't understand why they are so cold on new classes... 3.5 and 4e each had a ton of extra classes

they give you new subclasses, much of what classes do can be done that way too, but yeah, no idea why

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Maybe I wasn't clear. I hate that potions burn your surge for a fixed amount of HP independent of your Surge Value. I love healing surges, but potions in 4e really suck IMHO, specially for defenders.
I think they should give HP based on your surge value, even if it's a fraction of it.

The reason it is set up that way is so you don#t end up with 50 cheap Level 1 (or Level 5) healing potions and don't need the Leader's healing powers anymore.

I personally think it would have been better if they didn't need the high-level wealth magical items and all that stuff and we had a much flatter "financial" curve.
If that isn't possible or proves insufficient, other limitations could have been had, like some healing potion limit. Your body can have anly so much healing potion fluids inside you...

• first potion heals your healing surge
• second potion only works if you're already bloodied (and still heals you a healing surge) OR second potion takes a standard action to drink because you need to force it down.
• third and subsequent potions only stabilize you (even if you're out of healing surges). OR third potion takes a standard action to drink and dazes you until the end of your next turn because you're getting sick of all that liquid healing.

Reset after a short rest. So even if they become very cheap in the late game, they remain limited and you can kinda work that into your healing magic (maybe Leaders wouldn't get an extra use of their healing ability at Level 15 or whenever it was because you're hoarding potions anyway.)

 

[Bolares]

The reason it is set up that way is so you don#t end up with 50 cheap Level 1 (or Level 5) healing potions and don't need the Leader's healing powers anymore.

I think the leader's powers will always be better than a healing potion, and costing a healing surge prevents the 50 cheap level 1 potions scenario doesn't it?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think the leader's powers will always be better than a healing potion, and costing a healing surge prevents the 50 cheap level 1 potions scenario doesn't it?

The Leader powers are better, but if you get a healing surge value with the cheapest potion back, you can basically heal yourself every turn at high levels. The extra d6s won't really make that much of a difference at the end of the day. And you certainly don't need Second Wind.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Maybe I wasn't clear. I hate that potions burn your surge for a fixed amount of HP independent of your Surge Value. I love healing surges, but potions in 4e really suck IMHO, specially for defenders.
I think they should give HP based on your surge value, even if it's a fraction of it.

I would want 2 or 3 types of healing potions... a low level "you can spend a HD" a mid level "you can spend a HD and get +1d8hps" and a high level "you can heal as if you spent a HD"

 

[Bolares]

The Leader powers are better, but if you get a healing surge value with the cheapest potion back, you can basically heal yourself every turn at high levels. The extra d6s won't really make that much of a difference at the end of the day. And you certainly don't need Second Wind.

I'm also not saying they should be a full surge value, but they should use it as a base. A fixed amount of HP per potion is really bad for the role that most wants to be hit and endure the battle.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I'm also not saying they should be a full surge value, but they should use it as a base. A fixed amount of HP per potion is really bad for the role that most wants to be hit and endure the battle.

the only thing that should heal just X without referencing your HD or Surge value should be free healing and expensive...

 

[Undrave]

There's a lot of stuff I'd want back, but to keep things simple and realistic the ones I would bring back:

1- Actually SHORT short rests. 1 hour is too long. 10-15 min, the basic times of most rituals, works well.
2- Interesting Monster design with roles built in to make encounter design more dynamic and easier to do.
3- The Bloodied condition and all its potential hooks.
4- Mark could also be brought back as a mechanical hook similar to the Bloodied condition. It would help communicate intent very well.
5- Skill challenge framing
6- The Disease track! It was really an easy way to model complex curses, diseases and even long lasting injury. You could have a 'broken arm' and 'broken leg' track, for exemple!

Also, if we can't have Healing Surges back, I'd like to see more stuff that drains HD outside of the just healing in short rests.

I like that. The only similar thing in 5e RAW that comes to mind are creatures that can take additional actions when they've dropped a creature to 0 hit points, which doesn't happen that frequently with 5e PCs to see a lot of use. Mainly I've used it in a "save the villagers" scenario where, e.g., gnolls are rampaging through a village. When they down a commoner and immediately attack another it creates a heightened sense of urgency. If similar things could be done with the bloodied condition, it would force PCs to be more liberal with spell slots and potions for healing.

The one that always stick to my mind is that Dragons automatically recharge their Breath Weapons and use them as a reaction the moment they get bloodied! (4e Dragons were more fun than just 'Two claw attacks and one bite VS Breath weapon'). It made fighting them way more dangerous.

Also, I'm pretty sure the monster stat block told you the bloodied value as a quick reference? If not, it should.

Toll the Dead would be a smaller text block if it could just reference the bloodied condition

Less a specific thing ... but I want OneDnD to get some of the more inventive and exploratory energy that 4e had. What is missing from 5e is some of the more experimental stuff that 3.5 and 4e were willing to do. Incarnum, Shardminds, Avengers, Warlords, the last time I saw something that felt even a little of that was the discarded Mystic class.

Races like Shardmins and Wilden were fun. Class wise there was some fun stuff, like you say: Warlords, Avengers, Invokers, Warden, those were really cool. The 4e Monk was way better too.

The Mystic's problem is that it could easily have been sliced up into 2-3 different classes. It just tried to do EVERYTHING too hard.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I don't understand why they are so cold on new classes... 3.5 and 4e each had a ton of extra classes

There are subclasses in 5e that are bigger than classes were in previous editions and I'm all in favour of it. About the only thing lost from the Psion by making it a sorcerer subclass (other than it gaining a light whiff of tentacles) is the need to include 70 pages of handcrafted psionic spells to make it work. And the rogue/soulknife is a straight up improvement on the 3.0/3.5 soulknife (not that that's hard).

 

[ART!]

At-Will, Encounter, and Daily powers/features. These are so easy to understand that they would make the game easier for new players.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I don't understand why they are so cold on new classes... 3.5 and 4e each had a ton of extra classes

I imagine they probably think the same thing about why players are so cold about using new classes that other third-parties make. Why are they the only company that can make a Psionicist that players will accept, when there have been plenty of Psionicists made by other people across the 'net to choose from and use? And if players want a Warlord or the infamous "arcane half-caster"... you can find all manner of versions out there as well. But apparently those don't count?

At some point WotC probably just threw up their hands and said "We went through all the effort to use the OGL for 5E so that players could get everything they wanted out of D&D that we ourselves were not interested or able to make... and yet players don't want to any of it and keep banging the drum for us to make it. We just can't win here!"

 

[leonardozg]

1-Consistent description, using keywords, frames, structure, avoiding misinterpretations
2-Class balance
3-Options and customization
4-The way they made different attributes relevant, like Wisdom for Fighter or Strength for Sorcerer.
5-Swordmage
6-Three saves
7-Bloodied condition
8-Paragon paths

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

Most of the list I'm ambivalent towards, but there are two that I would agree with.

First, I already have made Shorts Rests be 10 minutes in my game, and would be more than happy to see 2024E incorporate that (or 5 minutes). To me it made all the sense in the world because how I run a whole bunch of things on a 10 minute timer. It takes casters 10 minutes to perform a ritual, it takes experts 10 minutes to search large areas for secret doors and traps. So while they're doing that... letting the warriors take 10 minutes to rest and bind their wounds (as they are the ones who usually need it more than the casters and experts) makes all the sense in the world to me.

Ten minutes to bind wounds makes sense, but there are so many other things that recharge on a short rest you'd need to worry about in a global/all-players sense. Again, I think a lot of the difficulties arise from what's awesome for one table may not be so great other places.

Something else you could try adding... I'm looking at CR's rules for accelerated rests, and they have rules for accelerated short rests, but they also have an Arduous Rally. Basically, you can pack a short rest into five minutes if you're in a serious time crunch, but any healing HD are halved and everyone takes a level of exhaustion.

Again, every table is different, but where I've been, there has been an insane amount of the 'fifteen minute workdays' full of short rests. Maybe an answer would be to steal 4e's rules where every ability has an Encounter/Daily uses and it doesn't matter how long anyone rests?

 

[Vaalingrade]

There are subclasses in 5e that are bigger than classes were in previous editions and I'm all in favour of it. About the only thing lost from the Psion by making it a sorcerer subclass (other than it gaining a light whiff of tentacles) is the need to include 70 pages of handcrafted psionic spells to make it work. And the rogue/soulknife is a straight up improvement on the 3.0/3.5 soulknife (not that that's hard).

Yeah, and that's why it fails.

People want psionics, not just a lazy repaint of magic.