Dragonlance (+) What Would You Want From 5e Dragonlance?

[Faolyn]

I don't think we have to rewrite kender (and thus history). Just dont use them in your campaign if you dont like them. I dont see why people want to erase things they can opt out of.

Not erasing. Just having them actually be consistent to their own description.

 

[Steampunkette]

Gotta remember, @Faolyn. One man's Reason is another man's Excuse.

The kender could "Believe their own excuses" because to the kender those are -reasons-. Earnest, honest, reasons. But it's excuses to everyone else. I'm sure you've had your fair share of people calling your reasons for doing things excuses simply because it doesn't satisfy their personal "Bar" of what is a good reason.

Mostly 'cause your reason inconveniences them.

 

[Faolyn]

Gotta remember, @Faolyn. One man's Reason is another man's Excuse.

The kender could "Believe their own excuses" because to the kender those are -reasons-. Earnest, honest, reasons. But it's excuses to everyone else. I'm sure you've had your fair share of people calling your reasons for doing things excuses simply because it doesn't satisfy their personal "Bar" of what is a good reason.

Mostly 'cause your reason inconveniences them.

Honestly, if I was constantly stealing and lying about it, mocking others in order to make them mad, and touching things I shouldn't, I would deserve people calling my reasons "just excuses."

 

[Steampunkette]

Honestly, if I was constantly stealing and lying about it, mocking others in order to make them mad, and touching things I shouldn't, I would deserve people calling my reasons "just excuses."

Unintentional Theft, Inability to read Social Cues, Asking Personal Questions to the point of inciting violence, "Lying" reflexively to try and avoid trouble you don't understand...

If the authors are sincere in presenting these things as true for the Kender, rather than the Kender just being lying thieving jerks who insult people habitually, then it feels very ADHD/Autism Spectrum/80s-Spaz behavior dialed up to 11.

Which is what it sincerely reads like, to me. Part of why I related so hard as a kid and wince so hard, now.

Of course if they -are- just little gobknobblers who actively make these choices then that's either more cruel on the writer's part or right around the same level.

 

[Libertad]

I believe that the writers intended to portray Kender as being perpetual in the mindset of overly-curious children. Or an idealized portrayal of such children. The overall innocence of kender is emphasized in many books, to the point that they're overwhelmingly good-aligned and visiting violence upon them is heavily looked down upon even if many societies try to keep them away from their stuff.

 

[Hussar]

Wasn't the reason for "no magic shops" simply an artifact of the edition? After all, Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms, at the time, didn't have magic shops either. No setting had magic shops in D&D because you couldn't by magic items by the rules.

I have to admit, I strongly disagree with the idea that DL is a low magic setting. The heroes of the lance were absolutely dripping with very powerful magic items, up to and including artifacts, by relatively low levels. And the modules were filled to the brim with magic items. One module, and I can't remember which one, I think one of the later ones that had a collection of short modules, had a pool that granted +1 to +4 permanent bonuses to any non-magical item put into it. Granted, a magic item put in would blow up, but, them's the breaks.

I think there was a very large shift in how people viewed the setting starting around 3e era (ish).

 

[Faolyn]

If the authors are sincere in presenting these things as true for the Kender, rather than the Kender just being lying thieving jerks who insult people habitually, then it feels very ADHD/Autism Spectrum/80s-Spaz behavior dialed up to 11.

I am both autistic and have very severe ADHD, and I grew up in the 80s. They do not seem like any of those fit. I don't recall liking them at all when I first read Dragonlance stuff in the early 90s, when I was in my teens. (I was more interested in the minotaurs.)

To me, kender seem like charming sociopaths. They've certainly fooled a lot of people into thinking they're actually well-meaning and kind-hearted.

Of course if they -are- just little gobknobblers who actively make these choices then that's either more cruel on the writer's part or right around the same level.

Their origin is convoluted.

 

[Libertad]

Wasn't the reason for "no magic shops" simply an artifact of the edition? After all, Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms, at the time, didn't have magic shops either. No setting had magic shops in D&D because you couldn't by magic items by the rules.

I have to admit, I strongly disagree with the idea that DL is a low magic setting. The heroes of the lance were absolutely dripping with very powerful magic items, up to and including artifacts, by relatively low levels. And the modules were filled to the brim with magic items. One module, and I can't remember which one, I think one of the later ones that had a collection of short modules, had a pool that granted +1 to +4 permanent bonuses to any non-magical item put into it. Granted, a magic item put in would blow up, but, them's the breaks.

I think there was a very large shift in how people viewed the setting starting around 3e era (ish).

In my original post, that was one example out of many. I could provide a lot more examples of Krynn being comparatively low-magic, but I didn't want to clutter the thread. The nonexistence of (non-evil) divine magic for centuries until a Chosen One PC brings knowledge of it to the world is a pretty significant indicator, showing how the setting as a whole lacked something other popular worlds have in spades.

Being unable to rely on healing magic to patch one up was a huge deal in the setting. Even though Clerics are still relatively rare in other settings, in Krynn their virtual nonexistence was something that brought a lot of suffering through the aptly-named Age of Despair.

Also the Heroes of the Lance are the Super Lucky Lottery Winner equivalent of Krynn's population. They're well, heroes, who could see and do stuff most inhabitants would never dream of in their lifetimes. The most marvelous stuff in the Dragonlance Chronicles is much like any adventure: showing the coolest parts of the setting as opposed to a holistic overview.

During the War of the Lance there were huge sections of the population who have never seen a Cure Light Wounds spell or a Wizard and never will. Meanwhile in Faerun there's a nation where 33% of the population are trained wizards (Halruaa) and in Eberron you got huge sections of the working class employed as Magewrights and House Cannith churning out magic items and warforged. It's a question of scale and accessibility to the common folk.

This isn't a weakness, mind you. I actually think that keeping magic as a rare and miraculous thing that only precious few people have access to lends a special flair to the world and its people. It also makes the return of the gods an even bigger deal.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Time Travel rules. Pages and pages of time travel rules.

I want to go back and hang out with Takkisis in her angsty goth phase and convince her to not throw her hissy fit through the power of sarcasm and metal.

Also the lyrics to Raistlin and the Rose printed on the inside cover.

 

[Hussar]

Otoh libertad, you also have king priests and continent spanning magic wars where the forces of clerics crush the wizards.

Play generally doesn’t take place during the Age of Despair.