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D&D 4E What would you want to see in 4e?
- Thread starter Ghostwind
- Start date
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
Elimination of random rolled hit points.
Hit dice based on type. Every over creature in the game that's not using a class, uses it's type to determine hit dice. Why are players different?
Elimination of cross-class skills or customization of skills selected at start of character creation.
For the core book, minimal amount of classes and races (cleric, fighter, rogue, cleric)/(human, dwarf, elf, halfling).
Sidebars discussing what the game mechanic is meant to represent and how to alter it and eliminate it with notes on what effect that will have with game play.
Hit dice based on type. Every over creature in the game that's not using a class, uses it's type to determine hit dice. Why are players different?
Elimination of cross-class skills or customization of skills selected at start of character creation.
For the core book, minimal amount of classes and races (cleric, fighter, rogue, cleric)/(human, dwarf, elf, halfling).
Sidebars discussing what the game mechanic is meant to represent and how to alter it and eliminate it with notes on what effect that will have with game play.
Sado
First Post
That is a bit of an overstatement. I actually find it somewhat easier because it makes more sense and seems more realistic to me (although I understand the abstract nature of AC and have no real problem with it either).BelenUmeria said:I understand that, but why complicate things when you do not need too. AC works fine. Armor as DR is a lot more gamist, more complicated, requires more work, and makes combat take longer.
The only way it is viable is if you're running a combat tracking program!
Unearthed Arcana did an excellent job of this.JoeGKushner said:
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Arcane Runes Press
First Post
Spells shifted to a mix & match, effects-based system that scales in power, to eliminate the need for 800 different, individual spell listings. Create core spell types instead (like character classes for spells, if you will) that can be individually modified to create specific spells. So, for example, magic missile isn't a specific spell, it's a damage spell with specific mods.
A similar approach taken to feats. Fewer feats that scale with level, and are modified with a solid base of options, to allow for massive customization without as much cross-referencing.
Random snippets of free verse rap interspersed in unexpected places.
Scaled trees for core classes, to allow for a greater variance of abilities. The rogue's special abilities are a good example of this, though I'd take it further. This would reduce the need for PrCs (not that I don't like PrCs).
Full frontal ogre nudity.
A more utilitarian method for the creation of NPCs, with fewer numbers to facilitate swift and easy creation. A similar system for monsters, to allow for faster, on the fly modification.
Patrick Y.
PS: My name somewhere on the credits page. I'll write it in crayon if (when) I have to.
A similar approach taken to feats. Fewer feats that scale with level, and are modified with a solid base of options, to allow for massive customization without as much cross-referencing.
Random snippets of free verse rap interspersed in unexpected places.
Scaled trees for core classes, to allow for a greater variance of abilities. The rogue's special abilities are a good example of this, though I'd take it further. This would reduce the need for PrCs (not that I don't like PrCs).
Full frontal ogre nudity.
A more utilitarian method for the creation of NPCs, with fewer numbers to facilitate swift and easy creation. A similar system for monsters, to allow for faster, on the fly modification.
Patrick Y.
PS: My name somewhere on the credits page. I'll write it in crayon if (when) I have to.
RangerWickett
Legend
A core character-building system that has levels but is, in and of itself, classless.
At least 10 example classes created, from 1st to 20th level, using that system.
A mechanic to encourage roleplaying. World of Darkness has vices and virtues, where you gain basically 'action points' by acting in accordance with either one. It also has a morality system where you can acquire various penalties to your character as you commit ever greater acts of evil (stealing stuff, hurting people, killing people, etc.). Perhaps not quite what D&D needs, but something ought to encourage people to roleplay a bit. I probably wouldn't need it in my game, but it'd be nice to have.
An optional combat system that does not require minis or maps.
A magic system that, like the character-building system, is fairly classless and non-setting specific.
At least 3 examples of taking the magic system and using it to create different styles of magic.
No more rolling for hit points.
Consolidated skill lists, akin to things you see in lots of recent d20 products. Sneak, Perceive, Influence, etc. instead of Hide/Move Silently, Search/Spot, Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate, etc.
Skills that are useful even at high levels. E.g., why do you need jump or climb when the wizard can cast mass fly? Why bother with hide and move silently when you can be invisible and silenced? This most likely will require altering spells slightly.
Clear rules for the "you're 20th level, so it's not a problem that he's got a crossbow pointed to your head" or "you're 20th level, so it's safe to jump off this cliff" issue. Just have them there to silence the naysayers and stop the frikkin' "D&D sucks because it's unrealistic" arguments. It's time they came up with some new reasons to think D&D sucks.
So basically I want a D&D rules system that is designed to be a "Fantasy Adventure Game," so it can cover any sort of fantasy gaming you want. And then, because this /is/ D&D, a large chunk of the book would be devoted to presenting the standard tropes of D&D.
Sample classes would be cleric, fighter, thief, wizard; barbarian, bard, druid, paladin, and ranger. The DMG would have a chapter devoted to briefly discussing non-standard campaigns, and would have classes like assassin, monk, noble, psion, samurai, and sorcerer.
Likewise, the core magic system would be flexible, and the PHB would present plug-and-play components to turn the flexible system into bardic magic, cleric magic, wizard magic, and druid magic. Then the DMG would provide some other components for turning it into psionics, defiling, shadow magic, etc.
At least 10 example classes created, from 1st to 20th level, using that system.
A mechanic to encourage roleplaying. World of Darkness has vices and virtues, where you gain basically 'action points' by acting in accordance with either one. It also has a morality system where you can acquire various penalties to your character as you commit ever greater acts of evil (stealing stuff, hurting people, killing people, etc.). Perhaps not quite what D&D needs, but something ought to encourage people to roleplay a bit. I probably wouldn't need it in my game, but it'd be nice to have.
An optional combat system that does not require minis or maps.
A magic system that, like the character-building system, is fairly classless and non-setting specific.
At least 3 examples of taking the magic system and using it to create different styles of magic.
No more rolling for hit points.
Consolidated skill lists, akin to things you see in lots of recent d20 products. Sneak, Perceive, Influence, etc. instead of Hide/Move Silently, Search/Spot, Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate, etc.
Skills that are useful even at high levels. E.g., why do you need jump or climb when the wizard can cast mass fly? Why bother with hide and move silently when you can be invisible and silenced? This most likely will require altering spells slightly.
Clear rules for the "you're 20th level, so it's not a problem that he's got a crossbow pointed to your head" or "you're 20th level, so it's safe to jump off this cliff" issue. Just have them there to silence the naysayers and stop the frikkin' "D&D sucks because it's unrealistic" arguments. It's time they came up with some new reasons to think D&D sucks.
So basically I want a D&D rules system that is designed to be a "Fantasy Adventure Game," so it can cover any sort of fantasy gaming you want. And then, because this /is/ D&D, a large chunk of the book would be devoted to presenting the standard tropes of D&D.
Sample classes would be cleric, fighter, thief, wizard; barbarian, bard, druid, paladin, and ranger. The DMG would have a chapter devoted to briefly discussing non-standard campaigns, and would have classes like assassin, monk, noble, psion, samurai, and sorcerer.
Likewise, the core magic system would be flexible, and the PHB would present plug-and-play components to turn the flexible system into bardic magic, cleric magic, wizard magic, and druid magic. Then the DMG would provide some other components for turning it into psionics, defiling, shadow magic, etc.
Aaron L
Hero
I can't think of any improvemenst myself. Not trying to imply the game is perfect by any stretch, just that how to improv it is beyond me. As far as personal preferences go, I'd say:
* Lighter default prevalence of magic - make it a little bit more special, it is fantasy but too much exposure can make even magic mundane
*More and better thought out base classes - Im not saying that Fighers need to be better thought out, but I really dont like the way the swashbuckler, scout, etc. have been handled. Lets get a few more archetypes with the mythic backing of a Paladin or a Wizard out there, shall we? They are there. Make seperate Cleric and Priest classes, say, like Sorcerer and Wizard were differentiated.
*Martial Arts not tied to a Monk class - Leave a Monk class to represent a spiritual/physical quest for perfection or devotion, but come on, lets let Fighters be able learn how to Fight with thier fists, too.
*More types of Magic* - Lets gets some more traditions of supernatural powers. Some people dont like the distinction between arcane and divine magic. I do. Never liked the Grand Unified Field theory of magic, that there is one force out there that makes every event that isnt normal happen. Psionics, wizardry, sorcery, clericism, warlockery, lets have more!
Can't think of anything more right now. This is all, of course, completely selfish desires, and in no way do I think it would universally make the game better. It's just what I'd do!
* Lighter default prevalence of magic - make it a little bit more special, it is fantasy but too much exposure can make even magic mundane
*More and better thought out base classes - Im not saying that Fighers need to be better thought out, but I really dont like the way the swashbuckler, scout, etc. have been handled. Lets get a few more archetypes with the mythic backing of a Paladin or a Wizard out there, shall we? They are there. Make seperate Cleric and Priest classes, say, like Sorcerer and Wizard were differentiated.
*Martial Arts not tied to a Monk class - Leave a Monk class to represent a spiritual/physical quest for perfection or devotion, but come on, lets let Fighters be able learn how to Fight with thier fists, too.
*More types of Magic* - Lets gets some more traditions of supernatural powers. Some people dont like the distinction between arcane and divine magic. I do. Never liked the Grand Unified Field theory of magic, that there is one force out there that makes every event that isnt normal happen. Psionics, wizardry, sorcery, clericism, warlockery, lets have more!
Can't think of anything more right now. This is all, of course, completely selfish desires, and in no way do I think it would universally make the game better. It's just what I'd do!
Michael Tree
First Post
Make multiclassing spellcasters viable in the core mechanic. Spellcasting should stack, and caster/noncaster combos shouldn't be viable without feat and PrC patches.
Get rid of spell preparation, replacing it with a system like AE's where you ready a number of spells per level, and then cast freely from them with your spell slots. I prefer a system like AE's where you can trade slots up or down levels to spell points, which tend to be overly fiddly IMO.
Get rid of "save or die" spells.
Replace the concept of class skills with Iron Heroes' skill groups. Give all classes more skill points.
Class-based defense bonus.
Keep classes, but make them more flexible. Add a swashbuckler class if the revised fighter is inadequate for fighting in little or no armor, like the 3.x fighter is. Get rid of the bloody monk.
Make magic items a nice addition to characters, rather than something that defines a large proportion of the characters power. Keep magic items that do cool things, but get rid of most if not all "buffing" magic items. The only buffing magic items should be ones that replace physical equipment, like bracers of armor, or rings that give a shield bonus, not add to them.
Make combat more interesting and dramatic. I don't know if Iron Heroes's approach is ideal, but it's certainly a step in the right direction.
Get rid of spell preparation, replacing it with a system like AE's where you ready a number of spells per level, and then cast freely from them with your spell slots. I prefer a system like AE's where you can trade slots up or down levels to spell points, which tend to be overly fiddly IMO.
Get rid of "save or die" spells.
Replace the concept of class skills with Iron Heroes' skill groups. Give all classes more skill points.
Class-based defense bonus.
Keep classes, but make them more flexible. Add a swashbuckler class if the revised fighter is inadequate for fighting in little or no armor, like the 3.x fighter is. Get rid of the bloody monk.
Make magic items a nice addition to characters, rather than something that defines a large proportion of the characters power. Keep magic items that do cool things, but get rid of most if not all "buffing" magic items. The only buffing magic items should be ones that replace physical equipment, like bracers of armor, or rings that give a shield bonus, not add to them.
Make combat more interesting and dramatic. I don't know if Iron Heroes's approach is ideal, but it's certainly a step in the right direction.
zen_hydra
First Post
I would like D&D 4.0 to be Iron Heroes 2.0 with more magic added in. I would like several spell system options in the core rules (and not defaulting to Vancian). I would e sacred cows like Magic Missile to be completely overhauled or better yet dropped in favor of a uniformly balance spell selection. I would like magic items to be special bonuses and not the required norm. I want the cool powers to be in the hands of the characters and not their magical trinkets (refern to Iron Heroes statement above). I want D&D 4.0 to be more modular. I want it to be able to handle emulating various different RPG genres without undue stress on the system. I absolutely want a hybrid Iron Heroes / d20 Modern. A core d20 system for all types of games that meets the above criteria.
