Whatever happened to all the adventurous heroes?

[Quasqueton]

but I didn't notice you asking for advice.

Yeah. I have a good group of Players who are willing to talk after game sessions. Things like this get discussed and things "straightened out". I didn't bring up this subject to bash my Players, really. It was just an amazing coincidence that they *all* apparently created less-than-adventurerous/heroic characters.

I've seen such characters many times. Usually, any new game startup will have one or two characters who just make you wonder "why are you here?" Starting a new campaign is always the most difficult part of the game for a DM. And unless the Players all sit around and work out exactly what they each will play and why they are together, it will be necessary for the Players to "go along" with the opening plot hooks.

And regarding letting the crew deal with the potential trouble in the hold: Well, then the crew gets the xp and kudos for the effort. And when the ship gets to port and lets the PCs off, I'd end the campaign and say, "Well, your PCs disappear into the population and live happily boring lives, letting others deal with the adventures you hear about."

Then, "So, would you like to play the sailors on that ship? They seem to be interested in excitement."

Quasqueton

 

[Whimsical]

I find that if I want to have players play heroes, I have to ask them to create heroic characters. Otherwise I craft the initial game session around the characters by making the events personal. Instead of "The storekeeper's shop is haunted." I do "Your aunt and uncle will not go back to their store because they saw a frigtening apperation in the back room. She asks you, her favorite nephew, that you and your violently trained and talented friends to please secure her store for them. She's willing to pay for their services."

Personally as a player, I make a strong effort to find out what the DM wants us to do, then do it. I cheerfully jump into any available plot wagon presented to my character. But this is a personal choice and I understand that not all players, in fact many players, don't play this way. Which is why I give out character creation guidelines which explicitly explains what kind of game I'm running and what kind of play I am expecting from the players.

 

[random user]

I don't know about all the Tolkien characters jumping at the chance to adventure.

Aragon was shirking his duty to become king for a long time. Granted, what he ended up doing wasn't worthless, but the most heroic thing for him to do would be attain his rightful place at the throne. Yes, it's also true that before wasn't the time for it, but from what I remember he wasn't thinking "The catalyst for me to attain the throne hasn't occured yet," it was more like "My ancentors really messed things up; am I doomed to repeat their failure?"

Frodo wasn't hopping to deliver the ring to Mt. Doom. Sure he had a bit of wanderlust, but it still took him several decades and then Gandalf telling him to leave that got him out of the house. Otherwise he might have lived out his days in the shire without incident. And eventually he only took the ring because he knew there was no other option.

It's been a while so did Boromir even want to go to the elves? Or was he basically forced to because his younger brother wanted to go and so the king, to spite him, sent Boromir instead? It's possible he was jumping to go, but I seem to remember he thought the whole trip was a waste of time. (Again, please correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while.)

Each (or most of them at any rate) of the adventurer's advocated running at some point in time. Being heroic doesn't mean being suicidal or even being aggressive necessarily.

In my mind, the adventurers are heroes because of their dedication to the fellowship. This is what unites them and motivates them. They are heros because they must be for the sake of their fellowship. I believe that if the fellowship hadn't been formed, the hobbits would have lived their life out in the shire, Aragon would have wandered the land as a ranger, Boromir would have become the king of his kingdom etc etc.

When you start out a campaign and don't have ties formed between the individuals, I wouldn't be surprised that their motivation is to look out for themself, and I don't think that's a problem. If you get through several sessions and this remains the case, however, I do think that the campaign will suffer.

 

[TheEvil]

Still curious...

Probably my fault for putting questions and comments in the same post, so I will ask again, which character actually went to investigate? (I know, I know, stereotype answer is fighter)

 

[Tom Cashel]

In D&D, starting PCs have 50-55% chance to hit naked enemies, and it drops with armor and DEX Bonuses. On skills, they will have +4, max., with a typical +2 bonus, against a DC:15 target number... In targets, as with skills, they are more likely to FAIL than to succeed.

I don't completely agree with this line of reasoning applied to the cowardice of low levels.

True, starting characters in most systems are fragile. But in D&D challenge ratings continue to rise with PC level; in a "balanced" game (where "balance" means that challenge level somehow correlates with PC abilities), the relationship you describe will continue throughout the campaign.

The PCs will just acquire more abilities...and more methods of having a significant chance of failure.

 

[diaglo]

double post

 

[diaglo]

Then, "So, would you like to play the sailors on that ship? They seem to be interested in excitement."

Quasqueton

so you wish to encourage metagaming?

if only bumps in the night that the DM tells you about are gonna happen in game.

then sure... i'd jump at the chance as a PC.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

so you wish to encourage metagaming?

if only bumps in the night that the DM tells you about are gonna happen in game.

then sure... i'd jump at the chance as a PC.

But I think these bumps in the night were accompanied by faint screams. I suppose that could be common on a ship of lonely sailors...

 

[Gothmog]

I just started a new campaign. We started with the PCs not knowing each other, but are fellow passengers on a very large immigrant ship.

One night, the ship is awakened to thumps, bumps, and faint screams from the cargo hold. One PC is annoyed at having his sleep disturbed. One PC shows complete apathy to the event. One PC is frightened and hides under his blankets. The other PC at least shows interest enough to go investigate the problem---but this is mostly due to him being a guard for some of the freight stored in the hold (he only acts when paid to act).

I mentioned to the Players, if this is how their PCs react, then it is going to be a very short campaign.

Quasqueton

I think you're missing the point. Maybe your players DON'T WANT to be heroes. I've played in a campaign where the DM forced the PCs to be heroes- and all the players hated it and resented the railroading. Most people don't want to go sticking their noses in other people's business- and when they do, they often get (justifiably) get unfriendly reactions and bad reputations. So PCs tend to mind their own business unless offered a job, reward, or they have a personal stake in it. Thats not being an anti-hero, its being smart. Going out to right wrongs simply to be heroic is dull, and honestly not how real people behave. You end up with two-dimensional characters who have more in common with Superman (vanilla goody-two-shoes) and no compelling personality. Such characters end up sticking their noses in other people's business and getting said nose sliced off- or worse. I can't stress enough- if you really want your characters to be motivated and get really involved in adventures, put personal stakes in it for them. Have a family member need help, a religious schism or heresy occur in the PCs religion, the threat of legal trouble, etc. Simply plopping down some random screams, or an eerie little town doesn't mean the PCs will bite- in fact most players will go "uh, ok- we're moving on before the s**t hits the fan". Diaglo is right- you have to make the players care and motivate them to get involved.

 

[Quasqueton]

Probably my fault for putting questions and comments in the same post, so I will ask again, which character actually went to investigate? (I know, I know, stereotype answer is fighter)

Yep, the fighter. Whose responsibility was to ensure the safe shipping of some cargo in the hold.

if only bumps in the night that the DM tells you about are gonna happen in game.

"One night, the ship is awakened to thumps, bumps, and faint screams from the cargo hold." Were you deliberately ignoring what I actually said in order to make your point?

Quasqueton