Whatever happened to social combat?

[Plane Sailing]

Do you remember that we heard last August about social combat in 4e?

There is a nice long thread about it here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=204681 which kicked off as a result of something from Mouseferatu's blog back on Aug 20th 2007.

We have skill challenges now which are a bunch of skill checks against static DCs, while apparently there was an original concept which was much more like a 'to and fro' of different parties trying to score points off one another.

Anybody know what happened to that?

Cheers

 

[IanB]

If I had to hazard a guess, they couldn't simplify it down enough for the core 4e philosophy of not overcomplicating things.

I wouldn't be surprised to see it appear in something like a DMG 2 though.

 

[TimeOut]

...or a "Intrigue & Social Interactions"-splatbook.

 

[unobserved]

Whatever happened to social combat?

What do you mean what happened to Social Combat? I thought that's what the ENworld forums were for.

 

[Nosey Goblin]

I think thats what Skill Challenges are.


Shane

 

[Sanzuo]

I never liked the idea of a "social combat" mechanic and come to think of it I'm not crazy about skill challenges either. So I guess I'm not sad to see it go.

 

[Kordeth]

Yeah, that sounds kind of like a challenging way to use your skills....

Seriously, I'm 99% sure that what he was describing there was an early draft of the skill challenge system.

 

[Regicide]

If I had to hazard a guess, they couldn't simplify it down enough for the core 4e philosophy of not overcomplicating things.

Not overcomplicating things is a philosphy of 4E? Could have fooled me. Look at how many threads there are on wizard spell books or masterwork armour, not to mention people wondering if aid another can be used in skill challenges. Nor have I ever felt so intimidated making a character before, needing to read over the whole power set and feats to make sure I don't screw up my ability scores to make my character dramatically worse than it should be because the to-hit system is so unforgiving a 2 point shift means you're boned and if you put points into DEX instead of CHA you can't use half the powers effectively or qualify for feats you'll want in 10 levels.

Of course the fact that the index is very very poor doesn't help. I have yet to find anything I've actually wanted to look up, such as marking.

 

[unobserved]

Of course the fact that the index is very very poor doesn't help. I have yet to find anything I've actually wanted to look up, such as marking.

Marking is on the Conditions page (277).

Not being a smartass, just you know, in case you still haven't found it.

 

[Mistwell]

Not overcomplicating things is a philosphy of 4E? Could have fooled me.

Well then they did. Because yes, the focus is on not overcomplicating things.

Look at how many threads there are on wizard spell books or masterwork armour, not to mention people wondering if aid another can be used in skill challenges.

Wait, gamers debating rules on the internet is a good indication of actual complexity for you? Yes, apparently, could have fooled you..

As for the specific of what you just said, most of that is pure rubbish. One guy thinks the spellbook for example costs money, and everyone else doesn't. That's not really what you would call a complicated debate about the rules. You want complicated debates, go to the 3.5 rules forum. I can give you about 100 topics that resulted in threads so long people forgot what topic they were even talking about to begin with. That will happen with 4e eventually too (because gamers love to debate the rules), but so far it's hardly anything to call complicated.

Nor have I ever felt so intimidated making a character before, needing to read over the whole power set and feats to make sure I don't screw up my ability scores to make my character dramatically worse than it should be because the to-hit system is so unforgiving a 2 point shift means you're boned and if you put points into DEX instead of CHA you can't use half the powers effectively or qualify for feats you'll want in 10 levels.

You exaggerating about what is an actual 5% to 10% shift isn't the fault of the rules, it's your own paranoia. You didn't need to do all that. Your character would have been perfectly playable without all that. You made a choice to min/max, and the rules didn't force you to make that choice.

Of course the fact that the index is very very poor doesn't help. I have yet to find anything I've actually wanted to look up, such as marking.

I find the index to be a marked improvement over other game books. Your mileage apparently varies.