What's a Cleric to do...

[Dakdakkel]

I have played DnD here and there since I was younger but was never able to fully get into it because of a lack of people i knew to play with until recently. I decided to give being a DM a try and things are going well and I am learning a lot that of rules that I was previously unaware of. I hope this question does not seem trivial.


Character: Tarren
Deity: Taiia (Creator) also known as Taiia (Destroyer)
Domains: Healing & Knowledge
Class: Cleric lvl 2
Race: Halfling
Alignment: Neutral


Now I want to know if Tarren would be able to use spells such as Inflict Minor Wounds which is a Necromancy school spell? Everyone in the group has to be neutral - Lawful good and I am not sure if a neutral cleric who is good would be able to use necromancy spells and still be good. But at the same time I can see that my god sits on both sides of the fence and is truly neutral so I believe that my character should be able to use these darker powers but for the forces of good. Just want to know if anyone else with more experience in this realm has some knowledge they could share.

 

[gardengoth]

Necromancy != Evil

Granted there are a number of Necromancy spells which are naughty-naughty, but if you're interested in technicalities just avoid spells with the [Evil] descriptor (e.g. Animate Dead).

In terms of whether you may spontaneously cast Cure or Inflict spells via the Spontaneous Casting class feature; you choose either Cure or Inflict at creation and stick with it. You're afforded that one freedom because your god is neither good nor evil.

 

[Dakdakkel]

I should have also asked this in the original thread, but what are good spells that a cleric should be able to cast for assisting with damage that would not be considered evil, since most damage spells are necromancy.?.?

 

[GrolloStoutfoam]

Inflict, inflict, inflict. (Again necromancy is not evil, just eerie) That is how clerics will dish out the damage and the touch AC is usually a cakewalk to hit.

Searing light is a wonderful 3rd level spell, especially against undead. A ranged touch attack. Higher levels (9th and above), the cleric gets access to spells such as flame strike and blade barrier that can target an area, slay living (again a touch attack). So there is lots and those are just in the PHB.

Really depends on the cleric and the player. Does the halfling want to melee? Then buff and crush. Bull's Strength, Divine Power, Righteous Might.

Does the halfling stay back and support? Then summon spells are great to bring in help and give the melee characters flanking opportunities and again he should use ranged touch spells.

 

[Diirk]

Now I want to know if Tarren would be able to use spells such as Inflict Minor Wounds which is a Necromancy school spell? Everyone in the group has to be neutral - Lawful good and I am not sure if a neutral cleric who is good would be able to use necromancy spells and still be good. But at the same time I can see that my god sits on both sides of the fence and is truly neutral so I believe that my character should be able to use these darker powers but for the forces of good. Just want to know if anyone else with more experience in this realm has some knowledge they could share.

I'm not sure I entirely understand this; a neutral cleric can't cast necromancy spells and remain good... they're not good, they're neutral ! That aside, as a neutral cleric you can cast any spell you want. If you were a good cleric then you would be forbidden from casting spells with the [evil] descriptor, however.

 

[TheGogmagog]

I think the other posters are trying to say this, but are confusing the point with 'odd' mathematical != (does not equal) or semantic structure.

Necromancy is not evil. [Evil] is evil.
A Good cleric a) cannot cast a spell with [Evil] descriptor b) cannot channel negative energy (spontaneously cast cause x wounds).
A Neutral cleric of a Neutral Deity can a) cast spells with the [Evil] descriptor and choose to channel either positive or negative energy. There is no game mechanic where casting [Evil] spells will change your alignment to [Evil], only in the 'Book of Vile Darkness (warning adult content)' an accessory book, and in a side bar (optional rule), does it say casting an [Evil] spell is an evil act. Even then there isn't a mechanic that determines this would change a character's alignment.

Now it IS up to the DM, and would be perfectly reasonable to rule otherwise, or better yet, just suggest/ask the player to refrain from spells with the [Evil] Descriptor. I wouldn't suggest any restrictions on Necromancy spells.

One thing to note, is casting summon monster to summon an evil creature makes it an [Evil] spell. Personally, I wouldn't suggest restricting this, just use the descriptor in determining how it works with other spells (like dispel evil), or +2 saves vs [Evil] spells.

The other major [Evil] spell is create undead. In previous editions, this included a trapped soul, and the creature couldn't be raised. So it carries some baggage with the older gamers, even in the current edition, you are denied a body for raise dead spells. In a good leaning group, one of the party members trotting around some undead servants, probably wouldn't be well received. Even if he gets it past the party, then you have the NPC's to deal with. Again, this would probably best be handled by telling/asking the player to just steer clear of this tactic. Even the temporary summon undead, or spells with creepy visual effects like bone armor, might influence negative reactions.
-My 2cents

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

Good and Evil, Law and Chaos are not philisophical concepts in the D&D game. They are the forces which define the cosmos.

The problem you have here is that while the "cure" and "inflict" spells are no more good or evil than "light" and "darkness" spells are. Cures and light spells are generally associated with Good individuals. In the same manner, Inflict spells and darkness effects are generally associated with evil.

Under the RAW, only spells that have the [Alignment] descriptors are at issue, and then only clerics or other PrC whose source of power is related to their Ethos have the restiction of not being able to use spells of an opposing alignment. A Neutral Good wizard can just as easily Summon a Celestial creature as he does a Balor or Pit Fiend. A Cleric or other divine caster cannot. A True Neutral cleric has equal access to spells with alignment descriptors because he is not opposed to Law, Chaos, Good or Evil. He need only choose wether he can spontaneoulsy cast cure or inflict spells; and then this is for balance reasons.

Now it IS up to the DM, and would be perfectly reasonable to rule otherwise, or better yet, just suggest/ask the player to refrain from spells with the [Evil] Descriptor. I wouldn't suggest any restrictions on Necromancy spells.

You are entering bigtime Rule 0 territory here - with one whopper of a set of consequences. Make sure you understand the rammifications of what you are doing if you start setting this up as a house rule, and be consistent in its application if you do it. This is not exactly a "suggested" course of action - but if you want to go down it; you would really need to start a second thread over in House Rules.

 

[seans23]

Wow, those are some lengthy responses.

Good clerics can cast Necromancy spells. They cannot cast evil spells. Inflict spells are not evil, so there's no problem.

Neutral clerics can cast evil and good spells with no restriction.

 

[Dakdakkel]

Thanks a lot, all the responses have a great deal behind them and I will rule how to play the continuance of this campaign in accordance. I have also been discussing the matter with the other players in the game to make sure we can all agree on what allowances and dis allowances I will put into play. Thanks again.