What's actually prestigious in your campaign?

[Humanophile]

Yet another PRC thread got me thinking. PRC's, at least the way I read them at first, were meant to be, well, prestigious. Joining one meant undergoing some significant trials and joining an elite group.

Between glut and mechanical requirements that rarely (if ever) pay attention to the actual rarity of such characters, that element of prestige classes has since vanished from the rules. And to be fair, unless we're speaking about a given specific campaign setting, that's for the best. But players like to be someone extraordinary, as opposed to Arcane Trickster #217.

So, with that in mind, what elements that you pick up later in the game do you hold off until some in-game requirements have been met. PRC's, feats, spells, whatever. Even if they're no more powerful than things anyone can pick up, what do you make your players sweat for, such that they can look back and take a good deal of satisfaction in having earned it?

 

[Crothian]

I have a few highly trained elite classes of people that the players have shown absolutely zero interest in. But I don't worry about it too much as my players have shown very little interest in prestige classes. The characters are 17th level and only one has taken a prestige class, the others are all single class characters.

Feats though I do have some higher level ones like the epic feats from ELH. However, many of them do not actually require the level of 21+, I think that's a little silly. Many of them can be gotten as soon as one qualifies for it.

 

[Psion]

I've had elite and exclusive groups I have totally represented with core classes, and fairly mundane specializations represented by prestige classes. I think it's best not to get hung up on the "elite cabal" requirement and consider where the approach is needed mechanically. That as much means not using it when it's not required.

 

[Nifft]

I've got one PC who's "upper class" (has Aristocrat levels and "good blood"), and she gets a lot of deference. I've got another PC who's taken "Eldrich Knight" to mean "army officer", and he's actually playing it very nicely -- so, he gets prestige whenever military matters come up, and that's pretty darn often.

There's another who's a Monk/Paladin, and he's been seen grappling Vrocks and winning -- he needs no special class levels to get respect. (He does have a PrC that allows his class choices to synergize, but that's not why he's got prestige. It's all about the deeds.)

-- N

 

[shilsen]

Yet another PRC thread got me thinking. PRC's, at least the way I read them at first, were meant to be, well, prestigious. Joining one meant undergoing some significant trials and joining an elite group.

I really don't think that PrCs necesarily have to be, well, prestigious. It just seems far too narrow a distinction to me and I don't think that's even what they are/were originally designed to be. Sure, some PrCs involve undergoing significant trials to become a member of an elite group (e.g. assassin, red wizard), but there are lots of other possibilities. PrCs can represent narrow specialization in a certain area (loremaster, duelist) or a simultanesous mastery of two unlinked fields (arcane trickster, mystic theurge), focus on an area of racial expertise (arcane archer, dwarven defender), etc. But due to the name, people focus purely on the prestige aspect. I'm not saying it would have obviated all the complaints, but I do think there'd be less if WotC had just named them "advanced classes" to start with.

So, in my campaign, a PrC can be any of the above. It can represent a PC's membership in a specific group, in which case its assumption would probably involve a certain degree of interaction with existing members. But it can also just reflect someone's area of expertise, or be a god-granted role, or the result of poking the wrong sigil while exploring an ancient tomb, etc. And it has no necessary correlation with the respect one gets, since that comes from a mix of context and character. For example, the city councillor, who is probably just a low-level NPC class, in all likelihood gets more respect than the adventurer with levels in spellsword. The latter will get more respect as a warrior, but that's about it.

 

[Chimera]

I pretty much agree with Shilsen's understanding that not all "Prestige" classes are elite and prestigious classes. Some are nothing more than specializations.

In my campaign documents, I spell out that gaining a prestige class is not something you simply decide to do when you level up. It's something you had better have been working on (with GM knowledge) for some time before hand.

And for those classes where it *IS* a prestigious organization, you have to be accepted into the organization and take your place in it. Ie, "You don't simply wake up one day and decide to be a Templar, then inform the other Templars that you're now one of them.". Sorry, doesn't work that way. They may not want you. And if you do become one, they may not like the idea that you're simply going to join in name only, but continue on your merry way. ("Oh no no no, son. You're a Templar now. You're assigned to such-and-such Cathedral under Bishop Whozits. Report to him immediately!")

But insofar as that goes, certain other organizations follow the same path. The Clergy of certain gods is highly organized, as is the one order of Paladins in that part of the world. Each expects you to "take your place" within the Order and serve as required.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

I tend to work with my players and use those prestige classes that they are interested in. It's no good revealing some ultra-elite cadre of warriors, men of virute and honour, when your fighter-types are too busy smashing heads in the local tavern to notice. I try to get a guage of where pplayers may be taking their PCs and tailor the PrCs avaialble to that. There is almost always some kind of training that has to be undertaken and often initiations rights as well.

 

[kigmatzomat]

My approach varies to suit the campaign world (and my variant of logic). While anyone can become a barbarian without training (AAaargh! So angry!) it takes training to become a monk. Then there's paladin vs. Knight. A Knight has been been, well, knighted while a paladin has Faith. Anybody can feel the call of the path of the righteous but that doesn't mean anyone else gives him a second look.

The deepwood snipers are specialists, same goes for the dervish and the loremaster.

IMC only members of the elven militia can become Arcane Archers, which is normally a deal-breaker for adventurers. The exception came when the heroes managed to save an elven village and the Count made the PC in question a captain (retired) and pulled a few strings.

The monk plans on becoming a Fist of Zukoden, which is a secret order and thus a true prestige class. Psionics have been considered fiendish gifts since they don't come from the Gods of Magic so only the greatest and most trusted members of the order are given training in its secrets.

So far the most prestige they've acquired has been from being heroes. I make a point of having the locals react accordingly to adventurers on both sides of the hero/villain line. Assuming there's no pre-existing bias, Nobles generally reward heroes, it's good for the rep and prevents a hero becoming a brigand or worse, turning into a Robin Hood bandit. Most nobles are smart (cheap) and do so with commendations, accolades, tax breaks, etc that don't cost much gold or actually increase the value of the noble's holding. The last bit of "prestige loot" was undeveloped land in an area often raided. They like the notion of being landowners and the Duke likes the idea of having a half-dozen motivated high level individuals dealing with the monstrous brigands. The fact they will spend money in his demense that he'll tax is extra gravy.

When my players enter a new town and decide it's time to impress the natives they have a dazzling assortment of pretty stationary from merchants, temples, wizards guilds, generals, barons, counts, dukes, a prince and even a king that proclaims them to be good people. The paperwork spans four countries and most of the continent. In some cases they are suspected of being impersonators rather than the true adventurers (probably because they are goofballs, rather "eccentric" as rich as they are) but they can generally prove their identity before any unpleasantness ensues.

 

[Remathilis]

I always took Prestige Class means Specialized Class.

For example: A mage who specializes in fire magic. A rogue who specializes in killing people. A fighter who specializes in mounted combat. A cleric who specializes in turning undead. Feats like mounted combat and improved turning are nice, but ultimately they don't specialize you far enough for most. A PrC can give you the edge in a particular field (usually) at the cost of some flexibility.

Its also a good way to introduce unique mechanisms. A lucky mage would be hard to do with a feat or something, but a fatespinner PrC is great for introducing a luck mechanic.

Finally, PrCs represent elite organizations like Purple Dragon Knights or Mage of the Arcane Order.

A poorly designed PrC does one of two things: overspecializes you at the cost of your "core" position on the team (for example, a rogue based PrC that skimps on skill points or a wizard based class that stunts spellcasting like Dragon Disciple) or doesn't cost ANYTHING to take (I'm looking at you, Radiant Servant). Hence, balancing a PrC can be extremely tricky, and its only muddled as new base classes enter the fray.

 

[the Jester]

In my campaign, most prcs aren't 'prestigious' in the way you mean the term. There are a few, however- the Halfling Sheriff must be appointed by a halfling community, the Miloxi heir carries a lot of weight with tabaxi, the Peshan master trader gains prestige via his ability to network and acquire anything, the Knights of the White Sun are specially-appointed instruments of Imperial justice requiring the sanction of the authorities, and are kind of the legendary heroes... and so on.