What's better Power Attack vs. Weapon Focus

[CharlesRyan]

A lot of love here for Cleave.

I've never been as big a fan of Cleave as most people seem to be. Cleave is ideal when your encounter consists of multiple iterations of weaker-than-EL opponents--particularly encounters in which these multiple creatures swarm the fighter types. Particularly toward the beginning of those encounters, when the map is a target-rich environment. To me, that's generally the least interesting type of encounter, and not one I want to spend my feat slots optimizing for.

I'm much more interested in the boss monster encounter, and that's where I like my feats to shine. Standing toe-to-toe with one or two really powerful opponents is more engaging and heroic to me. That's the encounter I pick feats for.

That said, I still lean toward Weapon Focus over Power Attack (though I usually end up with both). WF may allow a bigger bonus, but at the cost of a feat slot and attack bonus. I may have attack bonus to spare in those encounters with lots of weaker opponents, but in the boss monster fight I don't want to give up too much attack bonus.

 

[Plane Sailing]

A lot of love here for Cleave.

I've never been as big a fan of Cleave as most people seem to be. Cleave is ideal when your encounter consists of multiple iterations of weaker-than-EL opponents--particularly encounters in which these multiple creatures swarm the fighter types.

As Razilin points out earlier in the thread, Cleave (and great cleave) tend to be more generally useful at lower levels - at 1st-3rd level most of your humanoid threats have low enough hit points that they will go down with regularity and cleave kicks in.

Of course, unlike great cleave, cleave also has a lot of benefit at mid-high levels too - whenever you are facing more than one opponent (and BBEG who act alone die too quickly - their lack of actions compared to a party is a real killer - so even fighting boss monsters you are likely to find a use for cleave)

 

[Plane Sailing]

Weapon Focus. Theres no point in having Power Attack if you don't have a BAB to use with it. At first level, that +1 just is not worth it.

Problem is, if you are a half-orc barbarian, you won't be able to take power attack until 3rd level, and then can't get cleave until 6th level... that's a lot of lifetime without cleaving!

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I wouldn't take weapon focus, because it is more likely to be a wasted feat (if you take weapon focus longsword and then find a +2 flaming battleaxe...)

Not an issue in magic shoppe campaign worlds, where you just trade in the +2 flaming battleaxe for the desired +2 keen longsword (or whatever), but I never like that setup.

Plus at 1st level, PA + Cleave is likely to get a lot of use against your typical foes.

Cheers

Thats why weapon focus should ideally be groups. Slashing, Piercing, Blunt, Ranged, Natural. Same with specialization.

 

[Jdvn1]

At 1st level, Weapon Focus is better. The ability to take a -1 penalty on attack rolls to gain a +2 bonus on damage rolls isn't as useful as a +1 bonus on attack rolls. Power Attack becomes more useful at later levels, when your attack bonus starts to vastly outstrip the AC of your opponents.

Yep.

Weapon Focus is also a good gateway feat.

 

[Jdvn1]

On the one hand, I could see an argument that Cleave is too powerful to cost only one feat slot w/o a prereq.

On the other hand, I hate it when a system uses a prereq on a useful ability to passive agressively make you take an ability you otherwise wouldn't. If Cleave is more useful at 1st level & Power Attack isn't very useful until 3rd level, it's annoying to have the prereq the way it is.

But Great Cleave is way more useful than either of those two! Why don't you make it a 1st level feat? "Too powerful" is an excellent reason. "More useful" isn't.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

If we're talking about just a 1st level character, I think Weapon Focus is better. If we're talking about life-long utility of a feat, definitely Power Attack.