What's changed?

[Istar]

Or you could subscribe to DDI for way less than that would cost and get your wish right now.

Your call.

I dont think you get it.

Unless DDI has fully edited manuals ???
That I can print out and they look the same as what you buy in the shop ??

 

[Kzach]

Am I the only ones who see's this ??

If this was done and I had any measure of assurance (and faith in said assurance) that it was a finally polished and finished product that wouldn't get errata'ed out the whazoo, then I would gladly plonk down cash for a hardcopy. I still prefer having a book to using a computer at the table, but with how the system is progressing, I just don't feel that's a reasonable or even viable expense.

 

[Dannager]

I dont think you get it.

Unless DDI has fully edited manuals ???
That I can print out and they look the same as what you buy in the shop ??

Why would they go through all the effort of fully editing and ordering brand new print runs for all of their pre-Essentials books when they already provide the service you're asking for (usable rules with up-to-date errata) as a relatively small part of their inexpensive online service?

They acknowledged the issue you highlight early on: their customers need a reliable way of getting ahold of their rules updates that integrates them with existing material so that DMs don't have to go through all their books and manually update them. Their solution was to deliver this updated content digitally, and integrate it into all their online tools. Unless physical books are functionally indispensable to you or you don't have access to a computer when you prepare for your game, the solution they chose ought to work out just fine for you.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Why would they go through all the effort of fully editing and ordering brand new print runs for all of their pre-Essentials books when they already provide the service you're asking for (usable rules with up-to-date errata) as a relatively small part of their inexpensive online service?

They acknowledged the issue you highlight early on: their customers need a reliable way of getting ahold of their rules updates that integrates them with existing material so that DMs don't have to go through all their books and manually update them. Their solution was to deliver this updated content digitally, and integrate it into all their online tools. Unless physical books are functionally indispensable to you or you don't have access to a computer when you prepare for your game, the solution they chose ought to work out just fine for you.

Frankly, if someone has said that they would like to see printed books with all the errata in, there is NO POINT in saying "but it's all in the DDI".

They know that. They don't want that, and are just making that point.

Don't try to make it their problem, OK?

 

[Dannager]

Frankly, if someone has said that they would like to see printed books with all the errata in, there is NO POINT in saying "but it's all in the DDI".

They know that. They don't want that, and are just making that point.

Don't try to make it their problem, OK?

He claimed that a full set of revised books would be a great business move for Wizards. I was pointing out that - no, they probably wouldn't be a great business move, because they already effectively provide all of their revised rules through an easy to manage format: a digital subscription (that, incidentally, would be much easier, financially, to keep up with than another full set of books). The point of saying "It's all in the DDI," was to highlight the fact that WotC already saw the problem Istar mentioned, but found a different solution to it. Providing two similar solutions to the same perceived problem probably isn't a good business move on their part, especially since the one they've already implemented is easier to manage and is easier on the wallet.

Sorry if this point came across as overly-critical or difficult to parse.

 

[Plane Sailing]

OK, I see now that you were primarily making the 'business model' point. No harm done, thanks for the clarification.

Cheers

 

[Kzach]

He claimed that a full set of revised books would be a great business move for Wizards. I was pointing out that - no, they probably wouldn't be a great business move, because they already effectively provide all of their revised rules through an easy to manage format: a digital subscription (that, incidentally, would be much easier, financially, to keep up with than another full set of books).

You underestimate just how many gamers want the physical product. Hell, a large percentage of them STILL buy the books even though they know the books will be redundant as a reference. And even then, a lot of those people would STILL buy ANOTHER copy should it be up to date.

Bad business move? No. The bad business move was to publish the books in the first place before errata. What they should be doing is 'publishing' them via DDI first in order to iron out all the kinks, get massive feedback on it, fix it all and THEN publish them. That would go a hell of a long way towards repairing the damaged relationship between WotC and their core market.

 

[Dannager]

Bad business move? No. The bad business move was to publish the books in the first place before errata. What they should be doing is 'publishing' them via DDI first in order to iron out all the kinks, get massive feedback on it, fix it all and THEN publish them. That would go a hell of a long way towards repairing the damaged relationship between WotC and their core market.

I do not think that this strategy would be anywhere near as successful as you think it might be.

 

[Terramotus]

I'm actually in a similar boat. I'm restarting my long-running 4e game after a hiatus that started right before Essentials came out. Without getting into any edition wars (or would it be intra-edition wars), if I dislike Essentials and plan on banning any Essentials or built-like-Essentials classes (such as Heroes of Shadow, sadly), but I would like to use the Character Builder.

Is there anything in the errata that will really jack with the state of the game from before in a negative way that I should have my players hand-write in on the character sheet? Or is it all about the same with the exception of Melee Training?

 

[Nullzone]

Your irrational response to Essentials aside...

In a word, yes. Most of the errata that has been applied in the last year has been to core books. Fighter, Warlord, and Cleric have all had a number of their spells and PPs fundamentally altered.