Pathfinder 1E What's good what's not in PF?

[Olive]

Hi there. I was a long term 3/3.5 DM who has spent the last 5 years or so playing other things (older versions of D&D, CoC, WFRP, DCCRPG etc). It's time for a change and I was thinking of PF. What I am wondering (having been browsing the SRD) is if there is anything outside of the core book (or in it I guess) I need to watch out for?

For example, I like the look of summoners but I've heard various people saying the class doesn't quite work. Things of that nature. I'm not interested in odd feat/class power gaming stuff that will almost certainly not make it to my table. More general stuff that would make the game less fun if we used it.

Any thoughts?

 

[Zardnaar]

Mostly it just has the same problems as 3.5. It lends itself to power gamer builds that kind of wreck the game and even basic abilities like the Paladins smite evil are a bit nuts when they can let everyone in the party do it. Its very rocket tag in my experience.

 

[Olive]

even basic abilities like the Paladins smite evil are a bit nuts when they can let everyone in the party do it. Its very rocket tag in my experience.

Say what now? How can a paladin do that?

Also, I missed the glossary: what is rocket tag? You mean a bit luck of the draw?

 

[GreyLord]

Hi there. I was a long term 3/3.5 DM who has spent the last 5 years or so playing other things (older versions of D&D, CoC, WFRP, DCCRPG etc). It's time for a change and I was thinking of PF. What I am wondering (having been browsing the SRD) is if there is anything outside of the core book (or in it I guess) I need to watch out for?

For example, I like the look of summoners but I've heard various people saying the class doesn't quite work. Things of that nature. I'm not interested in odd feat/class power gaming stuff that will almost certainly not make it to my table. More general stuff that would make the game less fun if we used it.

Any thoughts?

It depends on what you want. OF course you want the core rulebook, I'd also say the Bestiary. Other than that I'd say the Bestiary 2, Bestiary 3, and Bestiary 4 (afterall, everyone wants more monsters...right?).

Personally, as an older gamer, hate the idea of all these people playing evil races (some like playing evil races and call the races good and pretend the goblins, orcs, and gnolls are all humans in different forms...not my type of game) so I tend to AVOID the Advanced Race Guide.

I got Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Magic for one reason only, because of the Oriental/Asian slant of the classes in those books (they have the Ninja, Samurai, and the Magus...which has a form of the Kensai as a Magus). It does create a more heavy rules arena in some ways, so if you want to avoid that, these are other books to avoid.

I actually liked the Advanced Players guide, but that has some hit and miss with it in regards to classes, so depending on your slant, you may want to avoid that one as well.

If you like to have all sorts of stuff, Ultimate Equipment can be a good book, and if you want to create quick NPC's or have ideas in that regard, the NPC Codex can also be good.

Many don't like epic, and though it's not epic, it's similar...if you LIKE HIGH POWERED WAZOO campaigns where you finally are powerful enough to fight ultrahigh Demons and such...Mythic Adventures may be something for you to pick up. I picked it up. However, if you don't like that type of stuff, it's another one to chock up to avoid.

Ultimate Gamemastery is good in general for DM/GM advice and overall a good book.

So, if you have money to burn beyond the corebook, I'd say some of the Bestiaries (of course), and Ultimate Gamemastery. If you have more money after that I'd probably say Ultimate equipment because it has some really good ideas in there...and maybe...just maybe, the NPC codex.

PS: Then again, if you are using the PRD...not tons that you need to buy as you can also look it up on line. I'd say the big things remain with it that were with 3.5 in some ways...Munchkins/Powergamers may want to munchkin. Reasonable groups and DM's can normally either quell these folks, or kick them out if they are overly obnoxious.

At higher levels, if you don't have a spellcaster, there are some scenarios where you can get squashed. Monks are very effective Mage Killers, and can be a secondary roguetype (but still not close to being as effective as a full rogue typically), but otherwise, in combat...well...you probably want them as the Mage Killer but not as the cleric, Druid, or Fighter killer as they aren't so great at that.

Some people have serious grief with Summoners (as you mentioned), alchemists, and gunslingers. These are found in the Advanced Players guide. Don't like them...simply don't allow that book, or don't allow them as optional classes.

Melee types can also get outgunned at higher levels (normally not as badly as the Monk...though the MONK rules fighting Wizards overall).

Hope that helps some.

http://paizo.com/products/btpy8ffn?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-GameMastery-Guide
Edit: I gave the wrong name for the Gamemastery Guide. It's not Ultimate Gamemastery, it's the Gamemastery Guide.

 

[Sunseeker]

I find that Pathfinder is slightly less unbalanced than 3.5. There were some obvious fixes that they applied that are good. However, some of the additional content they created is just as unbalanced as 3.5 was, especially with casters, as usual. Non-casters have certainly been brought up, and I found the Ranger to be significantly more powerful even w/o magic and a pet.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

There's a feat that lets you give allies Smite Evil. In Pathfinder, Smite Evil lasts until that opponent is dead too.

In my last Kingmaker session, my druid turned into something flying with pounce. And then the paladin gave me Smite Evil. That's how my PC killed the dragon boss! (No, that's not a Kingmaker villain, but something special the DM added.)

 

[Ahnehnois]

Also, I missed the glossary: what is rocket tag? You mean a bit luck of the draw?

Rocket tag indicates a combat where the two combatants are (depending on how you look at it) either very lethal or not very durable. It means that a combatant can be killed in one hit. This happens a lot in D&D; with level 1 characters, save-or-die effects, and apparently smite attacks.


Regarding stuff in PF to scrutinize, you'll want to ask yourself whether you want guns in your game, and whether you want them to work like bows and arrows and be tied to a goofy class based on daily "grit" abilities. Also, I'd nix rage powers.

 

[Olive]

I'd nix rage powers.

I've never had a barbarian player so it probably won't come up but when you say nix do you mean remove entirely?

 

[Ahnehnois]

I've never had a barbarian player so it probably won't come up but when you say nix do you mean remove entirely?

Yeah. I'd use the Trailblazer barbarian or something else. Having a long list of specialized powers kind of defeats the point of playing a barbarian.

As with the above, it's not a question of things that will break your game, but of what kind of game you want to run.

 

[Olive]

As with the above, it's not a question of things that will break your game, but of what kind of game you want to run.

That's exactly what I'm trying to get my head around!

One thing I've been discussing over at RPG.net is the effect of removing summoning spells from the game (any thoughts here also appreciated) as the cosmology I have in mind doesn't involve celestial servants of the gods. I don't think it will change much that I care about.