What's that one feat?

[Ozmar]

Hi all!

I just know there's a feat that grants undead bonus hit points per hit die based on their Cha bonus. (Since they have no Con score, this usually increases their hit points dramatically.)

Does anyone know what it is and where it can be found? I can't believe I can't find it in Libris Mortis or Savage Species... Where could it be?

Ozmar the Lost and Confused

 

[Kurashu]

Unholy Toughness. It's a special quality, found it in MM2. Wouldn't be hard to make it into a feat though.

Unholy Toughness
Pre. Must be an undead
Benefit: You may use your charisma score to calculate your bonus hit points per hit die.
Normal: Undead lose their Con score and do not gain bonus hit points.

 

[Vorput]

Unholy Toughness. It's a special quality, found it in MM2. Wouldn't be hard to make it into a feat though.

Unholy Toughness
Pre. Must be an undead
Benefit: You may use your charisma score to calculate your bonus hit points per hit die.
Normal: Undead lose their Con score and do not gain bonus hit points.

Needs some sort of pre-req besides just being undead... maybe toughness (not improved). Otherwise every undead would have this (and still might)...

 

[Question]

Why? Improved toughness has no pre-reqs and nearly all mid-high level PCs take it.

 

[frankthedm]

Why? Improved toughness has no pre-reqs and nearly all mid-high level PCs take it.

That is a good sign it might be overpowered. But Fair is far and what is good for the goose is good for the gander. My players ask for that feat as well and it goes on just about every monster I use now.

 

[Vorput]

Why? Improved toughness has no pre-reqs and nearly all mid-high level PCs take it.

I know- that's why toughness should be the pre-req... because it means that the undead have to give up something to gain this boost. The undead can take improved toughness too, if they want- but toughness (or something smiliar... great fortitude maybe) should be the pre-req.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Unholy toughness is too good as a feat. It is way better than Improved Toughness. It would be just like allowing that feat for PCs, in addition to their normal Con bonus. How many PCs do you think would take it? Anyone wagering against "all"?

 

[Ozmar]

Unholy Toughness. It's a special quality, found it in MM2. Wouldn't be hard to make it into a feat though.

Unholy Toughness
Pre. Must be an undead
Benefit: You may use your charisma score to calculate your bonus hit points per hit die.
Normal: Undead lose their Con score and do not gain bonus hit points.

Thanks. I found it in MM3, on some of the undead (such as the Boneclaw) described therein. I couldn't find it in MM2. Oh well. Now I know what it is, and its not a feat, like I thought. I guess I could house rule it, but I am concerned that it would be too good. After all, if any undead could take it, than any undead with a 12+ Cha would be pretty foolish not to.

Thanks!
Ozmar the Undead Researcher

 

[Question]

Toughness is so a feat that it probably falls into the list of screwed up, completely broken, no one will use feats. I think WOTC admitted sometime after PHB II that they made a ton of feats/classes/etc that were nothing more than waste of ink and book space because no one would use them unless tehy had no choice.

+3 hp? You have gotta be kidding me.

Improved toughness should have been the original toughness in the first place.

That said you are probably right that as a stand alone feat it would be imba......its like having constructs get bonus HP based on a ability score(though they DO get one based on size, but it doesnt scale, which sets off alarm bells).

 

[frankthedm]

Toughness is so a feat that it probably falls into the list of screwed up, completely broken, no one will use feats. I think WOTC admitted sometime after PHB II that they made a ton of feats/classes/etc that were nothing more than waste of ink and book space because no one would use them unless tehy had no choice.

+3 hp? You have gotta be kidding me.

Diehard [pre requirment endurance] takes two feats for 9 single action "HP". To me that says improved toughness is a tad too good.