What's the Best Controller|Controller Hybrid at 11th level?

[Stacie GmrGrl]

My Battlemind of 11th level just got retired because she was part of a group that killed the emperer of a rival kingdom and the group decided to take control of the kingdom and the DM says that we can't play and also run a nation...party pooper... so it got retired.

At first I was going to go with a Warlock|Sorcerer hybrid build, but after looking at the party composition we have... a Fighter, Bard, Paladin, Cleric, Rogue, Sorcerer...we have NO Controllers...

So I am coming to you guys here on enworld, all you knowledgable fine people who know how to make awesome characters... if you could build a Controller|Controller Hybrid, what would it be? I want to do a Hybrid, I want to check out the rules and how it plays. These would be my scores at 11th level... he said to just use the same ones as the previous character.

22, 19, 17, 16, 13, 13 (these scores assume that the 22 was a 20 and the Race is Human)

Oh, and No wizard or psion...I've played those before, want to do something different.

I'll also take any good recommended builds for a Warlock|(Controller) if it fits better.

I know that this character's goal is to become a Deity. ruling a single country is just beneath her. She wants to be a ritual caster, I am leaning towards being Human for the bonus Feat and taking Hybrid Talent at 1st level as the bonus Feat. Plus the extra Power is also handy. So Human for race unless something else just Screems to fit better.

What are your suggestions? And what are your experiences using the Hybrid rules?

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

My Battlemind of 11th level just got retired because she was part of a group that killed the emperer of a rival kingdom and the group decided to take control of the kingdom and the DM says that we can't play and also run a nation...party pooper... so it got retired.

At first I was going to go with a Warlock|Sorcerer hybrid build, but after looking at the party composition we have... a Fighter, Bard, Paladin, Cleric, Rogue, Sorcerer...we have NO Controllers...

So I am coming to you guys here on enworld, all you knowledgable fine people who know how to make awesome characters... if you could build a Controller|Controller Hybrid, what would it be? I want to do a Hybrid, I want to check out the rules and how it plays. These would be my scores at 11th level... he said to just use the same ones as the previous character.

22, 19, 17, 16, 13, 13 (these scores assume that the 22 was a 20 and the Race is Human)

Oh, and No wizard or psion...I've played those before, want to do something different.

I'll also take any good recommended builds for a Warlock|(Controller) if it fits better.

I know that this character's goal is to become a Deity. ruling a single country is just beneath her. She wants to be a ritual caster, I am leaning towards being Human for the bonus Feat and taking Hybrid Talent at 1st level as the bonus Feat. Plus the extra Power is also handy. So Human for race unless something else just Screems to fit better.

What are your suggestions? And what are your experiences using the Hybrid rules?

The thing with Hybrids, is that they can be pretty decently good, or really, really completely awful. Most of them end up being kind of 'meh,' but there are some gems.

I've never looked into a controller hybrid of any description that wasn't a wizard, so I may not have much help for you, but stat-wise, the only thing that leaps out at me that isn't a wizard or psion, is Invoker|Seeker. Statwise, Wisdom primary matches up, but secondary synergy isn't really there.

Full Invokers have Ritual Caster, but not hybrids (IIRC). Seekers have very little support, so that's a mark against them.

EDIT: I totally overlooked Druid! That also has prime stat synergy with Seeker and Invoker, and both (Wis & Dex) with Seeker|Druid.

Seeker|Druids will be stuck in Leather unless you take a feat, so good thing Dex is secondary! Elf makes a really strong racial choice here as well.

None of those combinations get Ritual Caster, so you'll want to consider multiclassing with Wizard, Bard, or Invoker to get it, or taking Mark of Scribing, if Eberron Dragonmarks are allowed.

I'll try to dig up a link to the Hybrid guide I found...

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Here it is: the Hybrid Miscibility Table

 

[lyon812]

Really, Controller/Controller is something of a net loss. You're going to lose class-defining abilities in order to have more power flexibility, but since the powers are roughly equivalent, you're not gaining anything.

I'd consider Controller/Leader. Pairing an invoker with shaman would grant you a significant amount of battlefield control and party support, while both classes have excellent stat synergy.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

lyon812 makes a good point.

Even just multiclassing Shaman and then taking Mending Spirit buys you a per encounter heal, which is amazing.

It's worth repeating; Controller|Controller is not terribly good, since most of them already have good power selection, so you lose more than you gain.

 

[BobTheNob]

Keep in mind also you are looking for a controller because you dont have one in the party. Thats fine, but I find the definition of PHB controllers really weak. At the end of the day just about every pre-essentials class has a slew of powers that can hit multiple creatures/slow or immob/stun or daze.

If you wanted to you could take any class you like and just pick powers that are "controllerish" in nature. For instance, our parties archer ranger has a line up of powers that do these things and he makes a ripping backup controller (behind our wizard).

 

[Destil]

Eh, I'd have to disagree. Controllers have the weakest class features, to the point that they're almost entirely defined by powers. Doubling your options is a nice bonus.

A human Psion/Wizard (Human): Three at wills + Augmentations + Excellent daily power access. Stats line up just fine to make this good.

Deva Wizard/Invoker: You get to pick one of the invokers excelent at-wills plus the wizard's encounters and dallies.

 

[Mapache]

Really, Controller/Controller is something of a net loss. You're going to lose class-defining abilities in order to have more power flexibility, but since the powers are roughly equivalent, you're not gaining anything.

I'd consider Controller/Leader. Pairing an invoker with shaman would grant you a significant amount of battlefield control and party support, while both classes have excellent stat synergy.

Yeah. Expanding on my reply to over on RPG.net to this same thread, doubling up on Controller or Striker costs you class features for pretty much no increase in what you can do. Doubling up on Defender for insane marking potential or Leader for passive buff stacking can work (see the Killswitch Warlord|Artificer build). Controller|Leader works pretty well, and Invoker|Cleric is a very powerful and thematic choice that can bring down the wrath of the gods while keeping your allies up (and optimizes your armor proficiencies to boot).

 

[GameDoc]

What's more important for this particular character - optimization or character theme?

Thematically, I can think of several good Warlock|Invoker combos:

Infernal Pact|Asmodeus (you'll deal with the overlords of Hell to become a deity yourself)

Fey Pact|Corellon or Sehanine (total Feywild theme going on here)

Vestige Pact|Raven Queen (all those voices of the ancient dead whispering in your mind, but the goddess of death helps you manage them; also your following in her footsteps as a mortal aspiring to godhood)

Dark Pact|Raven Queen (total Shadowfell theme)

Vestige Pact|Vecna (all those secrets and forgotten lore are the key to power)

Dark Pact|Lolth (appropriate for a drow using this hybrid combo).

 

[Alukane]

I'll answer you with a character I built for fun times ago. Even if it's a striker|striker hybrid, he's mainly a debuffer, I love to inflict the"blinded" condition as often as possible

Spoiler

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Mevarick, level 12
Drow, Warlock|Rogue, Arcane Trickster
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid): Fey Pact (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlock: Hybrid Warlock Will
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Light Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Wand)
Hybrid Talent: Shadow Walk
Darkfire: Darkfire Charisma

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 15, Dex 21, Int 15, Wis 14, Cha 23.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 14, Dex 16, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 18.


AC: 26 Fort: 21 Reflex: 26 Will: 26
HP: 82 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 20

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +18, Acrobatics +16, Thievery +16, Arcana +13, Bluff +17

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Diplomacy +12, Dungeoneering +8, Endurance +8, Heal +8, History +8, Insight +8, Intimidate +14, Nature +8, Perception +8, Religion +8, Streetwise +12, Athletics +6

FEATS
Level 1: Versatile Expertise
Level 2: Weapon Focus (Light Blade)
Level 4: Hybrid Talent
Level 6: Cursed Advantage
Level 8: Nimble Blade
Level 10: Underhanded Tactics
Level 11: Psychic Lock
Level 12: Elusive Movement

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Eyebite
Hybrid at-will 1: Sly Flourish
Hybrid encounter 1: Dazing Strike
Hybrid daily 1: Blinding Barrage
Hybrid utility 2: Tumble
Hybrid encounter 3: Otherwind Stride (retrained to Low Slash at Level 8)
Hybrid daily 5: Forceful Assault
Hybrid utility 6: Fey Switch
Hybrid encounter 7: Mire the Mind
Hybrid daily 9: Knockout
Hybrid utility 10: Combat Tumbleset

ITEMS
Repulsion Drowmesh +3, Amulet of Protection +3, Cunning Dagger +3, Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier), Boots of Furious Speed (heroic tier)