What's the deal with 3rd party PF2E Adventure "support"??

JeffB

Hero
So I went over on Paizo.com to see what they had for a decent small-ish PF2 adventure to give the game a playtest over the holidays.

In the "old days" of PF1E over on Paizo's store page - there were hundreds of third party adventures for sale. I bought a bunch. Now for PF2E I see nothing but the freebie starter "adventure" (Which is really just 2 combat encounters-lame), the Plaguestone one that came out at release, the AP and I am guessing there is PF Society stuff ( nothing is there to show what is PF2E and what is PF1E that I can tell- it's just season1, season 2, etc)

I wasn't expecting hundreds or even dozens of adventures to be available but there are no 3PP adventure products at all for sale...?

Did Paizo tighten up on their SRD/OGL usage for PF2?
Did they eliminate 3PP sales for PF2 on their website?
Or is no-one creating for it?

what gives?
 

pcrotteau

Explorer
3p production seems to have slowed overall. Many of the companies are producing 5e material or are producing things for other systems. (John Brazer and Traveler for instance)

It should pick up more once the APG comes out and people see what else can be done with the class ancestry model.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member

dave2008

Legend
So I went over on Paizo.com to see what they had for a decent small-ish PF2 adventure to give the game a playtest over the holidays.

In the "old days" of PF1E over on Paizo's store page - there were hundreds of third party adventures for sale. I bought a bunch. Now for PF2E I see nothing but the freebie starter "adventure" (Which is really just 2 combat encounters-lame), the Plaguestone one that came out at release, the AP and I am guessing there is PF Society stuff ( nothing is there to show what is PF2E and what is PF1E that I can tell- it's just season1, season 2, etc)

I wasn't expecting hundreds or even dozens of adventures to be available but there are no 3PP adventure products at all for sale...?

Did Paizo tighten up on their SRD/OGL usage for PF2?
Did they eliminate 3PP sales for PF2 on their website?
Or is no-one creating for it?

what gives?
Just a lack of 3PP support I believe, nothing sinister on Paizo's part. Plus, i don't think they can tighten the SRD/OGL usage for PF2.
5e and, as others have noted, proprietary projects have swallowed up 3PP resources. That may change as the game matures.
 

DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar
There's a handful of companies doing a few things, but not many. As the game is still pretty new, I'm sure some publishers are learning the rules, while, as has been said, some publishers are simply giving it a pass. 5E is still so popular (even after 5 years), that it likely pays to design for that rather than PF2 if you have limited resources. (And, I would guess, that due to its rules streamlining, 5E is a lot easier to design for.)
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I doubt we'll see a return to 3pp levels like we saw in the early PF1 days. And it's not just because 5e is big. Many publishers seem to be producing their own game systems instead of backing a d20, OGL system.
We’ve had licenses ended twice by larger companies (d20 and GSL for 3.x and 4E, so WotC both times) so we chose to develop our own system as a backup. We still do plenty of OGL stuff for 5E and PF2, but we’ve made sure that if those two go away, we’re still in business.
 

Retreater

Adventurer
We’ve had licenses ended twice by larger companies (d20 and GSL for 3.x and 4E, so WotC both times) so we chose to develop our own system as a backup. We still do plenty of OGL stuff for 5E and PF2, but we’ve made sure that if those two go away, we’re still in business.
And from what I've heard, your system is pretty good. Congrats!
 

DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar
Kobold Press have stated in the past they want to wait a year or so to see how PF2E is doing. In the meantime, they have switched to creating material for 5e.
That may end up being an interesting (albeit, perhaps unintentional) commentary on PF2's success (or lack thereof).

My shelves are full of PF1 material from Frog God Games, but they are not doing PF2. (Of course, I'm not doing PF2 either, so I can relate.)
 

Aebir-Toril

Is lukewarm on the Forgotten Realms
That may end up being an interesting (albeit, perhaps unintentional) commentary on PF2's success (or lack thereof).

My shelves are full of PF1 material from Frog God Games, but they are not doing PF2. (Of course, I'm not doing PF2 either, so I can relate.)
It has always been my hypothesis that PF2 will be unable to capture all of PF1's audience, and will not be able to pick up a substantial number of new players. Sadly, it seems that 3pp publishers recognize this as well. If PF2 does fail in a significant way, Paizo may have to change its business model.
 

Parmandur

Legend
It has always been my hypothesis that PF2 will be unable to capture all of PF1's audience, and will not be able to pick up a substantial number of new players. Sadly, it seems that 3pp publishers recognize this as well. If PF2 does fail in a significant way, Paizo may have to change its business model.
From a business point of view, making a 5E product, a PF2 or a house system costs the same investment, but the potential returns for a product targeting a pool of millions of players is better than tens of thousands. Most of the 3PP house systems, like Castles & Crusades, are a good environment for adventures that are easy to adapt to 5E, which is not true of PF2. The smart ROI is 5E, regardless of personal preference.
 

Aebir-Toril

Is lukewarm on the Forgotten Realms
From a business point of view, making a 5E product, a PF2 or a house system costs the same investment, but the potential returns for a product targeting a pool of millions of players is better than tens of thousands. Most of the 3PP house systems, like Castles & Crusades, are a good environment for adventures that are easy to adapt to 5E, which is not true of PF2. The smart ROI is 5E, regardless of personal preference.
Exactly.

In my opinion, another major blunder which Paizo made was calling PF2, well, PF2. D&D has shown this to be a mistake in the context of creating new editions. Honestly, it was somewhat delusional for Paizo to believe that the loss of PF1 players would be offset by new players, considering the relative lack of prominence that PF has.
 

Parmandur

Legend
Exactly.

In my opinion, another major blunder which Paizo made was calling PF2, well, PF2. D&D has shown this to be a mistake in the context of creating new editions. Honestly, it was somewhat delusional for Paizo to believe that the loss of PF1 players would be offset by new players, considering the relative lack of prominence that PF has.
The most stark bit of info I've seen so far is the Q3 Roll20 numbers: PF1 outnumbered PF2 10 to 1, though I'm sure that will improve somewhat with time.
 

Aebir-Toril

Is lukewarm on the Forgotten Realms
The most stark bit of info I've seen so far is the Q3 Roll20 numbers: PF1 outnumbered PF2 10 to 1, though I'm sure that will improve somewhat with time.
I'm not surprised. Literally (and I use this term in its intended context) everyone I know who plays PF1 regularly has passed up the opportunity to play PF2. The loss of their original customer base has been stark.
 

CapnZapp

Hero
It has always been my hypothesis that PF2 will be unable to capture all of PF1's audience, and will not be able to pick up a substantial number of new players. Sadly, it seems that 3pp publishers recognize this as well.
(my emphasis)

Why the sadly?
 

Aebir-Toril

Is lukewarm on the Forgotten Realms
(my emphasis)

Why the sadly?
I misspake, my grammars was incorregible. [Humor]

What I meant was this:

It has always been my hypothesis that PF2 will be unable to capture all of PF1's audience, and will not be able to pick up a substantial number of new players. Sadly, this is seems to be true. It seems 3pp publishers recognize this as well.
 

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