What's the Deal with GriefCom?

[Christoph the Magus]

Someone else already the Kenzerco issue with the Dragon CD, but I thought that it was worth bringing up again, since it clearly demonstrates that WOTC has been sloppy with legal issues in the past.

In that case, Kenzerco had a stipulation in their contract that the comics created for the magazine could not be used for any electronic products, but WOTC put the comics in the Dragon CD anyway. The end result was that Kenzerco received a D&D license and that's why they're the only d20 publisher (besides WOTC itself) that can put "Dungeons and Dragons" on top of their books.

I find it hard to believe that this was the only mistake that was made througout WOTC's tenure as the the publishers of D&D. It just happened to be the one that they got called on, in large part because one of the founders of Kenzerco is a lawyer. Other authors don't have that kind of background to help guide them through these types of issues.

I for one hope that any effected writers/illustrators/etc get everything that is due to them.

 

[jaerdaph]

IIRC, Dannyalcatraz is and works in the entertainment field. When a legal question arises on these boards (particularly having to do with that field) and Dannyalcatraz weighs in on it, his posts carry their weight with me.

Yes, I know and I agree. My disclaimer actually does pertain to me.

 

[SWBaxter]

It sounds like they want to compile enough complaints for a class action suit :\ even if they have to back in time before WotC bought T$R. By doing that, I have no choice but to wish thier cause ill will. They may have many legitimate complaints, but trying to lump in what TSR did in the 80s and 90's destroys any sympathy i may have had for their cause

Er, WOTC still owns and distributes (or licenses for distribution) all of TSR's product line, so it seems pretty reasonable to me that they inherit any problems associated with those products. Part of the due diligence required when purchasing an insolvent company is to ensure all their debts are properly accounted for, if WOTC didn't do this then they have absolutely no sympathy from me.

About the only somewhat surprising thing is that it's the SFWA getting involved - I'm guessing that means that their main point of interest is novels and short stories published by TSR and/or WOTC.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Exercising my Internet-given right to mouth off...

I'm not privy to any of the details of this case yet, but:

Another thing that could be going on is that WotC could be giving such good discounts so frequently to online resellers that it may be impossible for authors to get reasonable royalties.

I haven't seen any of WotC's contracts, but one common royalty clause in entertainment contracts is that discounted units negatively affect calculating royalties. Depending upon the particular contract, discounted units may count only for a discounted rate, or may not count at all.

If, as many of the retailers on this board have complained, the online stores are selling product for less than brick n mortar stores can buy the products, authors may not be getting royalties in any real amount- or at all- on those units sold online.

Result: WotC makes money, the online retailer makes money, the brick n mortar store loses customers because they're being undercut, and the writer gets scrooooodled.

Depending on the actual facts of the case, this case could reshape the bottom line of this industry in a big way.

 

[thedungeondelver]

This is the deal with Griefcom, from John Barnes (quoted by permission):

Good question with a mixed answer.

The text quoted in the article was written by me and was originally SFWA internal communications, though of course we expected it to leak at once and we've begun to okay it for publication by interested outside sources. It has been quoted accurately and in full.

Your reading of it goes a step or two farther than the text does.

The Grievance Committee has existed since the early 1970s as a recourse for SFWA members that falls somewhere between yelling at your editor and calling your lawyer; most of Grievance Committee's activities have been more in the nature of a collection agency that takes no cut, a mediator, or the Better Business Bureau. Most of the cases it handles have been technically legally actionable but unprofitable to pursue in court, and many of its cases have involved unprofessional behavior or publisher discourtesy rather than outright actiaonable damages.

The new Task Force whose creation is being announced is a way to cope with an unprecedented problem, the existence of an indefinite but large number of potential Grievance Committee cases all involving a single corporate entity, i.e. Wizards of the Coast. As was noted in the statement,

> The first order of business for the Task Force is to determine the scope of the problem

and

> Just to find out how numerous and how bad the problems are, we have to break our traditional silence this much. We think the number of writers being harmed may be very large, and we hope to be able to locate as many of them as possible, and to take steps to secure their rights and quite possibly their money.

While we certainly expect that the investigation will turn up numerous areas for correction, it is much, much too soon to say whether legal action is or should be contemplated.

So far our contacts directly with Wizards of the Coast have been courteous and professional and they appear to be cooperating with the investigation; we have seen no evidence of any malice on their part, just a vast cluelessness resulting in an immense mess. We are pursuing the possiblity of cleaning that mess up collaboratively, that being the quickest route to justice for our writers, which is always Griefcom's paramount goal, and thus the goal of the new Task Force as well. Whether or not WotC cooperates in cleaning up the mess, however, it is a mess that must be cleaned up, for their sake as much as for the writers and for the overall field of publishing.

Hope that clarifies the situation,

Best,

John Barnes
Chair, Grievance Committee, SFWA

You may circulate and republish this letter so long as it is quoted in its entirety and without alteration, and the same condition is imposed on any subsequent quotation.



On Oct 2, 2006, at 8:17 PM, :

> Sir, vis this article at gamingreport.com:
>
> http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=22365&mode=thread&order=0
>
> ...is this a factual statement? Is the SFWA creating a grievance committee based on actionable behavior by WotC?
>
> Much thanks,
>
>
>
>

What is it you folks say? "QFT", I believe?

 

[Mark CMG]

(. . .) and the writer gets scrooooodled.

Hrumph. I always lose you when you start bandying about the legal jargon.


Thanks, too, thedungeondelver!

 

[Kae'Yoss]

The end result was that Kenzerco received a D&D license and that's why they're the only d20 publisher (besides WOTC itself) that can put "Dungeons and Dragons" on top of their books.

Ravenloft 3e is called a "Dungeons and Dragons Campaign Setting".

Another thing that could be going on is that WotC could be giving such good discounts so frequently to online resellers that it may be impossible for authors to get reasonable royalties.

I don't know about the past, but as far as I have heard, Wizards' current policy is to screw online sellers. I don't know how hard it is enforced, but they say that they won't sell to "flea market" and online sellers. Only to Brick & Mortar stores. So if you actually depend on those online stores, because there is no FLGS for you (either they're not local or they're not friendly), you can go to hell as much as Wizards is concerned. And they're not commenting.

 

[Christoph the Magus]

Ravenloft 3e is called a "Dungeons and Dragons Campaign Setting".QUOTE]


I just checked the cover pic on amazon, and the Ravenloft book does not have the official banner that says "Dungeons and Dragons" on top. Kingdoms of Kalamar products do.

 

[DaveMage]

I don't know about the past, but as far as I have heard, Wizards' current policy is to screw online sellers. I don't know how hard it is enforced, but they say that they won't sell to "flea market" and online sellers. Only to Brick & Mortar stores. So if you actually depend on those online stores, because there is no FLGS for you (either they're not local or they're not friendly), you can go to hell as much as Wizards is concerned. And they're not commenting.

Huh?

I buy almost 100% of Wizards stuff on amazon.com.

How are they screwing amazon if amazon is selling all of their products?

 

[Barak]

I don't know about the past, but as far as I have heard, Wizards' current policy is to screw online sellers. I don't know how hard it is enforced, but they say that they won't sell to "flea market" and online sellers. Only to Brick & Mortar stores. So if you actually depend on those online stores, because there is no FLGS for you (either they're not local or they're not friendly), you can go to hell as much as Wizards is concerned. And they're not commenting.

I'm with DaveMage here. I got quite a few WotC books on Amazon, all at a deep discount, so I have no idea what you're talking about.