whats the difference between a creature with lawful descriptor and a lawful alignment

[Dracuwulf]

what aspects of the game use the 'lawful' or 'chaotic' or 'good' or 'evil' descriptors? How does it differ from creatures with the alignment? I mean I read in spell descriptions that this spell affects lawful creatures, I assume that means creatures with the lawful alignment...?

 

[LokiDR]

Lawful is a subtype. Like gargoyals are (earth) or fire mephits are (extraplanar, fire). The subtype only applies where the spell says it applies. If the spell says it affects lawful creatures, it is refering to alignment, not subtype.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Lawful is a subtype. Like gargoyals are (earth) or fire mephits are (extraplanar, fire). The subtype only applies where the spell says it applies. If the spell says it affects lawful creatures, it is refering to alignment, not subtype.

Of course, creatures with the [Lawful] subtype are affected by spells that affect creatures with the Lawful alignment, even if their alignment is not, in fact, Lawful...

Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has a lawful alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment.

-Hyp.

 

[Brekki]

And all natural and manufactured weapons a creature with the [lawful] subtype wields are considered lawful (for DR).

 

[TDRandall]

Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has a lawful alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment.

Yeah, I very vaguely remember a discussion about a penitent (i.e. good) Succubus still being affected by certain effects against evil since that was still it's subtype. Don't remember where it was, or what the specific effects it was talking about - detect evil, probably or maybe DR, but perhaps smiting also?

If anyone remembers that discussion (was it here, or the SRD/FAQs, or maybe in Dragon?), wasn't the Succubus also affected because of her good alignment also, so in effect the being has two "affectable" alignments?

Sorry, it's all pretty cloudy to me - wish I could remember exactly where I had seen that, but maybe my mentioning it will spark off a memory for one of the other readers to come.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Wasn't the Succubus also affected because of her good alignment also, so in effect the being has two "affectable" alignments?

I don't know the discussion in question, but I was quoting direct from the SRD, so yes, she would be affected by Blasphemy or an Unholy sword or detected by Detect Good (since she's a good-aligned creature), and she would be affected by Holy Word or a Holy sword or detected by Detect Evil (since she has the [Evil subtype, and is thus treated as an evil-aligned creature for spells etc that affect them).

-Hyp.

 

[Alzrius]

Interestingly, the single example I can find of a creature with an alignment subtype that does not match its actual alignment (Saureya, the fallen astral deva, page 61 of Dungeon #107), had one instance of contradicting the SRD: Saureya's natural weapons do not act as Good-aligned for purposes of overcoming DR, when according to the SRD they should.

 

[Hypersmurf]

... according to the SRD they should.

Absolutely.

-Hyp.

 

[Alzrius]

In a bit of further research, the above example may not apply: Another fallen deva, Nidrama from Dungeon #116 (page 44), has most of the same restrictions and losses as Saureya, including no longer using her held weapons as good-aligned weapons, but retains both her good alignment and her Good subtype. So maybe its just part of the status of being fallen...despite still being Good.