What's the difference between D20 Fantasy and D&D?

[dcas]

If you watch a basketball game 20 years ago, and watched one now, you'd be surprised of the rules changes. Basketball was a far more physical game in the 80s and had a larger 3 point line.

The 3-point line has always been 23'9" away from the basket in the NBA (EDIT: since it was introduced in 1979), except close to the sidelines where it can be as little as 22' away from the basket.

Same with football, which has some wierd things that wernt around 20 years ago like red flags? , two point conversions? bans on endzone celebrations? only certain allowable hits on the qb and movement of the kickoff line. However, bot hsports are still sports.

I fully agree that football has changed. However, I don't think it has changed very much since the rules on substitution changed. Two point conversions were found in college football and we also used in the old AFL before the merger.

But these are minor rules changes compared to the very extensive rules changes introduced in 3e.

 

[dcas]

I think you would be interested to see the actual evolution of the rules of the game of baseball. Nine balls to walk, four strikes, catching the ball on the bounce for an out, and so on and so forth are some of the minor differences between earlier versions of baseball and the one we know now.

There are many more than that, such as the distance from the mound to the plate, the way in which the pitcher delivers the ball, ground-rule doubles replacing what were originally home runs, the definition of a stolen base, etc. But these changes are minor -- and, what's more, have occurred over a long period of time rather than all at once -- compared to the extensive changes introduced in 3e. If 3e were the result of a long evolution of the game, say over 40-50 years, I'm sure we would not currently be having this debate.

 

[thedungeondelver]

The 3-point line has always been 23'9" away from the basket in the NBA, except close to the sidelines where it can be as little as 22' away from the basket.


I fully agree that football has changed. However, I don't think it has changed very much since the rules on substitution changed. Two point conversions were found in college football and we also used in the old AFL before the merger.

But these are minor rules changes compared to the very extensive rules changes introduced in 3e.

I'd say it's more like the difference between football, and arena or arena rules football.

(And yet, I've never been accosted by a fan of the latter for calling it that..."You old fogey! Get with the times!" )

 

[RFisher]

So you've not been to Glasgow, then.

We have a Scottish gentleman in my group at work. Great guy, but we sometimes have a harder time understanding him than the ESL guys in the group. (^_^) & it isn't the accent--it's the vocabulary & turns of phrase. We sometimes have to ask for a Scottish-to-English translation.

Which really makes me laugh when I see amatuer-classicists argue about the "correct" pronunciation of Latin.

If you watch a basketball game 20 years ago, and watched one now, you'd be surprised of the rules changes.

Yeah. I enjoy NBA basketball, but with the shot clock & outlawing zone defense... That's another case where I'd be tempted to disagree with Tupac. The game changes, only the name stays the same. (^_^) Yet, I do still call it "basketball", even if I'm tempted to call it "a different game".

(But then, I don't keep up with the NBA much these days. They could have tossed the shot clock & brought back zone as far as I know.)

 

[dcas]

But then, I don't keep up with the NBA much these days. They could have tossed the shot clock & brought back zone as far as I know.

In fact they have brought back the zone defense -- somewhat.

The shot clock was introduced in response to a particular style of play, exemplified in the Fort Wayne Pistons 19-18 victory over the Minneapolis Lakers in 1950, of deliberately holding on to the ball for long stretches of time to prevent the other team from scoring. Since such stalling is inimical to the spirit of the game, I don't view the shot clock rule so much as a change as an implicit rule that was later made explicit.

 

[dcas]

We have a Scottish gentleman in my group at work. Great guy, but we sometimes have a harder time understanding him than the ESL guys in the group. (^_^) & it isn't the accent--it's the vocabulary & turns of phrase. We sometimes have to ask for a Scottish-to-English translation.

I used to work with a lady who was Scottish and she claimed that she couldn't understand Aberdonians!

Which really makes me laugh when I see amatuer-classicists argue about the "correct" pronunciation of Latin.

As opposed to professional classicists arguing about it?

 

[Piratecat]

Please keep the thread on-topic. Thanks!

 

[DonTadow]

The 3-point line has always been 23'9" away from the basket in the NBA (EDIT: since it was introduced in 1979), except close to the sidelines where it can be as little as 22' away from the basket.


I fully agree that football has changed. However, I don't think it has changed very much since the rules on substitution changed. Two point conversions were found in college football and we also used in the old AFL before the merger.

But these are minor rules changes compared to the very extensive rules changes introduced in 3e.

The three point line was changed in 1995 I think and then put back in a few years ago. However, where as you see those rules changes as minor, they have greatly effected athletes in both sports and the way we watch the game. Especially the rules that effect points. Two point conversions have created a variety of different game plans for coaches. Just as we are rpg fans, for a football fan you sometimes grimace to see the pinacle treatment they give qbs. Its such a difference.

Same in basketball, as hard as it is for me to watch a non playoff game and look at these tick tack fouls, I know this is what basketball is now.

 

[Desdichado]

Please keep the thread on-topic. Thanks!

Speaking of the topic--how many here have purposefully run a d20 Fantasy game that was demonstrably not D&D and how was the experience?

I've used d20 Modern + d20 Past as an alternative for lower magic. I've used d20 Call of Cthulhu but set in a more medieval like setting. I've kludged together various d20 rules from multiple sources to create a setting that was somewhere between Burroughs' Barsoom and King's Dark Tower. I've done some d20 Star Wars and some Arcana Unearthed (I know, technically not d20, but that was just a technicality) and I own but have never used d20 Wheel of Time.

I think all have worked more or less exactly as I'd hoped. However, none of them felt like D&D to me. d20 D&D has that quintessential "D&D-ness" to it; maybe it's the specific combinations of classes, races, monsters, spells, magic items and the dungeoncrawling paradigm, regardless of rules, but d20 D&D always feels exactly like D&D always did, while my other d20 Fantasy games have not.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

...and other things, like what flavor of ice-cream is best or which version of the D&D rules are best, are wholly subjective.

But, again, I don't go around telling people eating chocolate ice cream that they're really eating frozen yogurt.

Repeatedly.

After being told that it's annoying.

And, besides, that was answering GG's claim that I must have some sort of ulterior motive for wanting 3E to be called "D&D," because I have such a dislike for the earlier versions. Succinctly, I don't have a dislike for earlier versions; I like the current version better. Therefore, I have no ulterior motives, and this isn't some sort of logical fallacy.