What's the difference between D20 Fantasy and D&D?

[jdrakeh]

I find that the "d20 Fantasy" label is largely a product of:

A. Necessity, in the case of designers who can't legally slap "D&D" on their products.
B. Bitterness, in the case of "old school" fans who are still living in the late 1970s.
C. Convenience, in the case of folks distinguishing between official D&D products and third-party products designed to be used with D&D.

I see plently of all three, though "B" is primarly confined to communities of the same charming folks who coined terms like "3etard" to describe people who play D&D 3x or other OGL games.

 

[Sound of Azure]

"old school" fans who are still living in the late 1907s.

Now that's old school!

EDIT: Bah! Edited!

 

[Turjan]

For me, d20 fantasy is D&D 3.x material from companies that didn't pay to use the name D&D. Plus D&D 3.x itself.

 

[jdrakeh]

Now that's old school!

Er. . .

 

[Rothe]

I find that the "d20 Fantasy" label is largely a product of:

A. Necessity, in the case of designers who can't legally slap "D&D" on their products.
B. Bitterness, in the case of "old school" fans who are still living in the late 1970s.
C. Convenience, in the case of folks distinguishing between official D&D products and third-party products designed to be used with D&D.

I see plently of all three, though "B" is primarly confined to communities of the same charming folks who coined terms like "3etard" to describe people who play D&D 3x or other OGL games.

Hey, I'm a late '70s fan! But really have no problem seein 3.x as D&D and I can say the same of at least 8 close friends who all started with playing OD&D from 1974-77. We go with "C."

If anything AD&D 1e is not D&D, per the legal arguments advanced to avoid paying Arneson royalties from 1e AD&D sales, which arguments were based on differences in the mechanics and content. There may even be sworn testimony (e.g. depositions) to this effect from AD&D's creators.

 

[RFisher]

Then you have me, as they say, at a bit of a disadvantage. You brought no baggage with you in terms of expectations...!

I left AD&D shortly after 2e came out. I missed the later developments. I played lots of other games.

When 3e came out, I was excited. It looked like the D&D I would have designed, based on my experience with non-D&D games.

But then I found a new appreciation for the older D&D & AD&D. So, now, 3e looks to me like either: (1) One of those other games I'd played with D&D window dressing or (2) a bunch of fixes for things I no longer see as broken.

So, you don't have to be someone who never played anything besides D&D & AD&D to see 3e as a different game.

& I completely understand why some people don't see the distinction.

3E bears as much resemblance to 1E as 1E did to OD&D.

OAD&D is more similar to oD&D than 3e is to either of them. It can be pretty hard to distinguish an oD&D game using all the supplements & bits from The Strategic Review from a oAD&D game.

As I recall T.Foster did a pretty thorough analysis of the differences between oD&D & oAD&D that was quite interesting.

 

[jdrakeh]

Hey, I'm a late '70s fan! But really have no problem seein 3.x as D&D and I can say the same of at least 8 close friends who all started with playing OD&D from 1974-77. We go with "C."

There's a difference between being a late 70s fan and a fan who is still living in the late 70s (i.e., a fan who refuses to acknowldege any game published since that time period as anything other than inferior drivel).

[Note: FWIW, I much prefer OD&D (1974) and the Holmes edit BD&D to other editions.]

 

[Qualidar]

"o" AD&D ?

~Qualidar~

 

[RFisher]

"o" AD&D ?

"Original". 1e. It's the way Col Pladoh refers to the game around here, so I figure that's good enough precedence.

Except that I don't always capitalize the O to emphasize that it's an addition adjective, not part of the game's original name.

(Or just because I think "oAD&D" looks better than "OAD&D". Although, I also tend to follow the rule that you capitalize the first word in a sentence. So if "oAD&D" is the first word in a sentence, I'm going to use a capital O the same why I use a capital T when "the" is the first word in a sentence.)

 

[delericho]

"Original". 1e. It's the way Col Pladoh refers to the game around here, so I figure that's good enough precedence.

Ouch. Sorry, and with all due respect to Mr Gygax, but I find that incredibly clunky. I would much rather see AD&D1 used.

Of course, that's just personal preference talking.