What's the difference between D20 Fantasy and D&D?

[mhacdebhandia]

Well, you asked.

"You guys" is a general class. It's not fair, but anyone who has gone on at length on these forums about their overwhelming preference for an older edition of D&D contributes to the impression that there is a cadre of Third Edition-haters here who enjoy denigrating the game to which the site is generally dedicated - even if they never say anything outright negative about Third Edition themselves.

The fact that there kind of is such a cadre, and that there's so much talk in General RPG Discussion about what older editions did differently or better right now, is contributing to an anti-older-edition-booster sentiment.

It's also fed by those who are tired of hearing about games like Castles & Crusades and OSRIC being better than Third Edition, too.

 

[BroccoliRage]

Well, you asked.

"You guys" is a general class. It's not fair, but anyone who has gone on at length on these forums about their overwhelming preference for an older edition of D&D contributes to the impression that there is a cadre of Third Edition-haters here who enjoy denigrating the game to which the site is generally dedicated - even if they never say anything outright negative about Third Edition themselves.

The fact that there kind of is such a cadre, and that there's so much talk in General RPG Discussion about what older editions did differently or better right now, is contributing to an anti-older-edition-booster sentiment.

It's also fed by those who are tired of hearing about games like Castles & Crusades and OSRIC being better than Third Edition, too.

But where has anyone, and in particular me, done that recently? I'm certainly not saying that anything does anything better than anything. I've only stated I prefer AD&D. I also said I'd be glad to play a d20 game, just not run one. As someone who has just as much d20 material as AD&D material, I don't see how I'm a rabid WOTC hater. I've given them alot of damned money, to be honest.

It's not the 'you guys' qualifier that bothers me, it's the bad attempts at clever, vieled insults directed at me but folks in general over the last 24 hours. To be honest, I've read better use of language in Harlequin novels. Whether or not you're a source of them, I'm not sure; I wasn't really paying attention to who said what. Some things are beneath notice, right?

By the way, I'm not espousing C&C or OSRIC, though both are good things. You're welcome to disagree, of course.

As an aside, I haven't noticed anyone stating that "older games are better than newer ones", I've only noticed that folks were stating preferences. And even if one were to state a preference as an absolute, that shouldn't bother anyone here, folks have been doing it for a while now.

As yet another aside, the Red Wings are the greatest hockey team ever. Discuss.

 

[BroccoliRage]

To be honest, it seems as though certain posters have recently been going to great lengths to be inflammatory. The only contributions that seem to forthcoming as of late are "3x sucks!", "3e isn't D&D!" and "ENWorlders are too thin-skinned!" interspersed with a little bit of "Check out OSRIC!" -- I think that, for many people, this is incredibly annoying (and can see where some of it might be offended when it's piled on thick).

Are you holding a grudge against me or something? Funny, I thought of you as an e-pal, though you had been scarce as of late.

I haven't been saying the first statement, the second one was an answer to a question posed to the forum at large, the third one is a genuine sentiment (some things just shouldn't be taken so seriously), and I don't remember folks saying "check out OSRIC", though I happen to be a fan.

 

[Aaron L]

OK, I just have to say that I would be more than happy to play a campaign of 1E D&D. I love that game! It has a different feel to it, because of the arcaneness and random restrictions. But it's a great game.

I prefer to play 3E in an ongoing basis, and if I had to choose I would choose 3E, but if I could play both would gladly do so.

But 3E is still D&D, whether some people wish to deny it or not. It is the height of condescension to say that "3E isn't really D&D so I'm not going to call it by that name."

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Like I said, General RPG Discussion has been full of threads with people discussing why they vastly prefer older editions to the current edition of D&D. Many of the most vocal and frequent posters in these threads are not regular contributors to current-edition threads here; many of them are in fact new arrivals from other, older-edition-focused forums.

For instance:

A thing about d20 D&D I didn't like, and still don't know why it was done...

Does 3E/3.5 dictate a certain style of play?

What is wrong with race class limits?

[EDITION WARZ] Selling Out D&D's Soul?

How dungeons have changed in Dungeons and Dragons

 

[BroccoliRage]

OK, I just have to say that I would be more than happy to play a campaign of 1E D&D. I love that game! It has a different feel to it, because of the arcaneness and random restrictions. But it's a great game.

I prefer to play 3E in an ongoing basis, and if I had to choose I would choose 3E, but if I could play both would gladly do so.

But 3E is still D&D, whether some people wish to deny it or not. It is the height of condescension to say that "3E isn't really D&D so I'm not going to call it by that name."

The height of condescension?!

LOL!!!

That makes me laugh because I was an enlisted man in the military, condescended to constantly in the name of bureaucracy and inflated egos. I think your designation is a little extreme.

 

[jdrakeh]

Are you holding a grudge against me or something?

Nope. I'm just saying that if you come into somebody else's clubhouse and lay on the "Your favortie game isn't REAL D&D!" you shouldn't be surprised if some people take offense. And, yeah, I know that you didn't say any of that stuff verbatim, but claiming that 3e isn't REAL D&D here is going to provoke nearly the same response as saying "D&D 3x sucks!" will (others have said that verbatim, in the past).

It's a common-sense deal. If you crap on somebody else's fun repeatedly and deliberately, they'll propbaly get offended. Claiming that people are thin-skinned because they take offense at remarks that are deliberately provocative and (likely) intended to cause offense is just adding inult to injury, really (as their response is absolutely appropriate).

And, yes, I like old school games -- I don't like them to the exclusion of all other games, however. Like many other posters, I'd be a lot happier if every meeting of AD&D1e fans and D&D 3x fans here at ENWorld didn't turn into a bad production of West Side story.

 

[BroccoliRage]

Nope. I'm just saying that if you come into somebody else's clubhouse and lay on the "Your favortie game isn't REAL D&D!" you shouldn't be surprised if some people take offense. And, yeah, I know that you didn't say any of that stuff verbatim, but claiming that 3e isn't REAL D&D here is going to provoke nearly the same response as saying "D&D 3x sucks!" will (others have said that verbatim, in the past).

It's a common-sense deal. If you crap on somebody else's fun repeatedly and deliberately, they'll propbaly get offended. Claiming that people are thin-skinned because they take offense at remarks that are deliberately provocative and (likely) intended to cause offense is just adding inult to injury, really (as their response is absolutely appropriate).

And, yes, I like old school games -- I don't like them to the exclusion of all other games, however. Like many other posters, I'd be a lot happier if every meeting of AD&D1e fans and D&D 3x fans here at ENWorld didn't turn into a bad production of West Side story.

You know...

I only answered the question because I was asked. The question was posed to me via PM, and to the public.

That's not crapping on anything. I haven't implied anythign either.

Bah, this is useless.

 

[jdrakeh]

I only answered the question because I was asked.

That doesn't make your answer any less ofeensive to some people.

That's not crapping on anything.

Dude. You posted that you believe D&D 3x isn't real D&D. On a forum dedicated to D&D 3x. You can rationalize that as light-hearted fun all you want, but realistically, very few people who play D&D 3x will see it that way. In fact, if you went to a forum specifically dedicated to AD&D1e and said that AD&D1e wasn't real D&D, you'd get the same kind of response (possibly more negative). It's not a funny "ha ha" -- it's an offensive remark that denigrates somebody else's brand of fun.

I haven't implied anythign either.

You've repeatedly stated that you don't understand why people are so offended by your remarks and have dimissed their offense as them not being able to take a joke. What I'm saying is that you didn't tell a joke inj this instance. You made an insulting remark. If you make insulting remarks, expect people to be insulted. That's all I'm sayin'

 

[Thurbane]

I have good friends of mine who think heavy metal is rubbish - they only like techno & trance. Some of them even imply that heavy metal is barely even music (coincidentally, I think the same about much techno)...

At the end of the day, we both just accept our varied musical tastes and go on being friends.

I honestly cannot believe that a handful of people stating their own opinions that they don't recognise 3.X as D&D could cause so much offense. Are people honestly so thin skinned that they can't simply agree to disagree and move on?