What's the difference between D20 Fantasy and D&D?

[diaglo]

ENWorld is your front lawn?

not really. but virtually.

diaglo "2006 ENnies Judge" Ooi

 

[Storm Raven]

Sure they do -- up to about name level or thereabouts.

They aren't an exponential progression. You should go back and look at them.

The thief class was introduced in the Greyhawk supplement. And in OD&D dwarves and halflings were basically fighters, while elves could act as fighters or magic-users. There's class limits right there. There are level limits as well (for example, halflings are limited to 4th level).

Yes, thieves were introduced as a supplement, but weren't in the OD&D rules. They were optional. Hence, they cannot be part of what makes D&D "real D&D". The same with nonhumans, class limits, and level limits.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Yes, thieves were introduced as a supplement, but weren't in the OD&D rules. They were optional. Hence, they cannot be part of what makes D&D "real D&D". The same with nonhumans, class limits, and level limits.

In real D&D every rule is optional.

RC

 

[Storm Raven]

In real D&D every rule is optional.

Therefore, the presence of lack of presence of any game element is irrelevent to whether something can be called D&D.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Therefore, the presence of lack of presence of any game element is irrelevent to whether something can be called D&D.

For me, certainly. As I said upthread, d20 Fantasy is the engine, D&D is the game. I don't think that there is as much new to this edition as some would like to believe.

OTOH, I fully support the right of anyone not to call anything by a name they don't choose to. When Rogers Cable bought the Skydome here in Toronto, they renamed it the Rogers Centre. That's their right. However, nothing in that right prevents me (or anyone else) from continuing to refer to it as the Skydome (except, perhaps, in legal papers).


RC

 

[Rothe]

preach on.

diaglo "no supplements" Ooi

Amen. I'd play OD&D again any day.

What, no hit locations or critical hits ala Blackmoor? I recall we tried those and only one DM got them to work, but he made it work very well.

By the way I thought you used Greyhawk? And why not Eldritch Wizardry, it's not like you need to hide the book now when your parent come in the room. Of course maybe now you need to hide it when the kids come in.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Let us suppose further that Hasbro decides to sell its RPG division. The D&D trademark ends up owned by Steve Jackson Games. He publishes the new D&D game, but its rules are identical to those of GURPS (particularly GURPS Fantasy) with a few "D&Disms" mixed in. Is this game D&D? Why or why not?

Absolutely, it would be D&D.

However, the difference between you & P&P and me is that I wouldn't go around on a largely (but not exclusively) D&D4E messageboard using terms like "GURPSD" or "GURPS Fantasy (NOT D&D)" which I know to be inflammatory. And doubly so when this fact has been explained at length to me.

I'm just not that brand of jerk.

EDIT:

Continuing with the music analogy from above:

Sure, your friend prefers Trance and Techno, and doesn't consider Metal to be "real music."

However, do they find ways to work in the statement, "That's not real music," each time you put on your favorite Metal CD? How long would it take for that off-hand, smilingly offered "Try some real music," to get on your nerves?

6 months? A year?

It gets old, people, and if that guy was your friend, and you explained to him, "Hey, look, it gets on my nerves every time you say that," and he persisted in doing it, that makes him a jerk (or at least, means he's knowingly acting like one).

 

[jdrakeh]

What, no hit locations or critical hits ala Blackmoor?

I voted for OD&D "with supplements" on Merric's poll, though I have to admit that I use the d30 Armory Critical Hit chart rather than the rules in Blackmoor.

 

[diaglo]

Amen. I'd play OD&D again any day.

What, no hit locations or critical hits ala Blackmoor? I recall we tried those and only one DM got them to work, but he made it work very well.

By the way I thought you used Greyhawk? And why not Eldritch Wizardry, it's not like you need to hide the book now when your parent come in the room. Of course maybe now you need to hide it when the kids come in.

i'm a softie as a referee. and allow all the supplements. and most of The Strategic Reviews.

however, i still don't allow the Bard as a PC class as found in The Strategic Review

 

[diaglo]

I voted for OD&D "with supplements" on Merric's poll, though I have t admit that I use the d30 Armory Critical Hit chart rather than the rules in Blackmoor.

when we switched to 1edADnD we added other rules.

the Armory Critical Hit chart was one of them added around 1984 or so.

i was a player and not the DM for that campaign.