D&D 5E What's the point of gold?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Just as on the real world you can probably find SLAVES for sale in any major city if you know where to look...

Sadly, no "probably" about it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-ap...ews/files/2014/11/Map2_World_final.jpg&w=1484

 

[Henry]

So asking someone to buy a magic lamp is asking them to invest in something that will break even after three years. That's more long term than many people think.
The very rich might buy, but it would be a luxury.

In a world with lots of low level spellcasters (Eberron) the service costs become cheaper and the break-even point is reduced Tia year. In a world where class levels are rare, it's more expensive.

No more so than a wagon, or a boat. And those things break after a year or two, requiring repairs (yes, by the rules, a wagon has no rules for breakage through normal wear and tear but we don't have rules for bathroom breaks, either). We're talking about an item that is fueled by magic and by definition never runs out. 75 gp for a horse that needs constant maintenance, compared to a light for your home that your grandkids will inherit, still working.

Yes, predominantly for the wealthy -- but not just the super rich, for the middle class artisans and merchants, too. Comparing continual flame isn't the best example - for something like a once a day item that casts phantom steed (is that still around? Haven't looked), the choice is way more clear cut - i'll take the flesh and blood horse, thank you much.

 

[Jester David]

3rd Edition was one of the few editions to really nail down the demographics of adventurers. 10% of the population had class levels, so something like 2.5% of the population theoretically had the power to cast spells (3 of the 12) classes. And some variable percentage was able to cast continual flame. Even if 1%, that's still a really high percentage. Likely higher than the percentage than the modern percentage that can fix a car or do plumbing or many other trade skills. (And auto mechanics and plumbers can pretty much set their rates at whatever they want. So the 100% markup beyond cost goes out the window.)
This 1% is still only a potential number, as not every wizard will have it in their spellbook and not every sorcerer will choose to learn the spell (and in 5e sorcerers lose it, so there are fewer potential casters.)

But in a city of 10,000 people, that still means there are in the range of 75 people that can make permanent lamps. So it's fair to assume that will have an effect on civilization. But it's still likely a rare thing.

Now, what if instead of 10% of the population, it's 5% that has class levels? Suddenly the 75 casters goes down to 38. 38 dudes in one of the biggest cities in the land, and not all might be interested in selling their services or advertising their skills. That moves it from "for the influential" to "for unique collectors". It might be limited to temples and wizard guild halls. Or the manors of the exceedingly rich.

Things get further muddied when you consider the rules. In 4e and 5e NPCs don't use the same rules, so it's arguably possible that only the PCs have access to that spell. It's the DM's discretion if there's a priest, mage, or archmage in a town.
It's very easy and reasonable to make a city where the only people able to make continual flame are the head priests of the local temples, the leaders of the mage guild, and the PCs.

 

[Henry]

Sadly, no "probably" about it...

The fact that the U.S. Is that high on the scale scares the crap out of me, but point made. If you have human trafficking in first world democracies on the 21st century, then you will have magic items for sale in a fantasy game setting aiming for plausibility. It's all in where to look (and how much exciting times your players want their characters to get into).

 

[Jester David]

No more so than a wagon, or a boat. And those things break after a year or two, requiring repairs (yes, by the rules, a wagon has no rules for breakage through normal wear and tear but we don't have rules for bathroom breaks, either). We're talking about an item that is fueled by magic and by definition never runs out. 75 gp for a horse that needs constant maintenance, compared to a light for your home that your grandkids will inherit, still working.

Yes, predominantly for the wealthy -- but not just the super rich, for the middle class artisans and merchants, too. Comparing continual flame isn't the best example - for something like a once a day item that casts phantom steed (is that still around? Haven't looked), the choice is way more clear cut - i'll take the flesh and blood horse, thank you much.

It's still a LOT of money. An unskilled labourer pulls in a silver a day, and a trained hireling makes 2 gold each day (PHB p159. Aristocrats living hand-to-mouth likely make in the range of 10 gold a day (PHB p157-8).
The 100-150gp handcrafted artisan everburning lamp two months wages for a middle class person (if they lived a modest lifestyle and saved all their spare money, they could buy it in 4 months) and a fortnight's pay for an artistocrat. For a single lamp.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Torches and candles are cheap.

A lamp or lantern requires fine metalwork and/or glass- not cheap.

 

[Ahrimon]

I despise the idea of magic marts. I have no issues with black market sales or high end brokers though. But at the same time the players have no control over what is there. Sure they could attend a magic item auction but there's no guarantee that there will even be an item they're interested in.

As far as Eberron goes, one of my favorite settings btw, I think people get too hung up on the items in the DMG as the end all be all of what is out there. The common magic in Eberron should be the utalitarian type. Bedrolls and socks that stay warm, brooms that sweep for you, knives that never need sharpening and stuff like that. The type of items that a PC uses should be the rare and exotic type of stuff that you can't readily find if you can find it at all. And even if a skilled artificer could create a magic sword, it's not on par with a +1 sword. It's always sharp or clean, but isn't enough to account for a +1. I know it's not the normal way to look at these things, but it's possible to fit 5e's item system within Eberron's higher magic without changing 5e's system at all. To each their own, but this is an option for those interested.

 

[Hussar]

His actions alone integrates him into the game world and the most logical purchase would be the one which ensures that you stay alive. And a girlfried hardly justifies an entire manor. The running costs for it alone would be quite high with all the staff needed to keep it running.

You can be fairly sure that a professional soldier who has to pay for his own equipment purchased good weapons and armor first and luxuries second, unless he had a fatalistic attitude and wanted to "have as much fun as possible before he died". Don't forget that at 4th level we are not talking about some money, but about the majority of the PCs wealth. Not spending that on staying alive in the fights you regularly get in and instead buy and repair a manor which obviously is much too large than what the PC really needs is a strange choice.



As I said that is the logical progression the same way knights gave way to pike&shot.

It's only a logical progression if you presume a magical item economy. Which comes with all sorts of additional presumptions and means that your game worlds will all start looking very much the same. Every town has to have a wealth limit. Every town is presumed to have someone who can make magic items, which means every town will have multiple casters. On and on and on.

If the balance of your game is so precarious that not having a +1 to hit and damage is the difference between life and death, perhaps there are larger issues at play. I should be able to have one plus less than you and still be a viable member of the group. Otherwise, every character must have exactly the same stats, exactly the same equipment and exactly the same bonuses.

No thanks.

 

[Celtavian]

Then you're going to end up with the "Big Six" problem again.

There are items in 5e (like in 3e) that are obviously better than others, even if you set the prices far more narrowly (like 3e/4e did). As long as you have items that directly impact "the numbers" (AC, HP, Attack, Damage), they will always be far more valuable than items of limited or situation value (like Potions of Longevity or a Wand of Secret Door Detection).

If you were interested in comparing the cost of say, a cloak of protection to a cloak of elvenkind, my gut reaction is to price the cloak of protection way above the cloak of elvenkind (say, 5,000 gp for the CoE, but 50,000 for the CoP). There is no way I'd price an item like Gauntlets of Ogre Power for less than a million GP.

Fortunately they killed any problem with the "Big Six" with attunement.

 

[Celtavian]

Ok if it is so easy, please give us a balanced price list of all items in the DMG, it should account for the utility of the items and not encourage players to buy only the most useful ones -like cloak or resistance-..

Make it up yourself. Use an old book if you want prices easy. They didn't need to put it in for you considering default is magic items extremely rare and uncommon. They know they have a bunch of editions out. If you want 3E type magic item shop, pull that book out and go for it.

You decide how expensive or available magic items are. You can do it on a case by case basis. It is left in your hands. Make the world the way you want it.