D&D 5E What's the point of gold?

[frankthedm]

Airship fleets.

 

[Fanaelialae]

2e required that you figure out the recipe for making individual items, or at least the expanded rules in Spells & Magic did. I think the core rules did too, but I'm not sure. I don't think they called it a "recipe" though.

Yeah, I remember that; I think the DMG had basic guidelines which Spells & Magic expanded upon. 2e didn't call it a recipe, but IIRC that's what it was (once you researched it, you could use the same formula to reproduce the same item again and again, although there was a chance of failure each time depending on how closely you followed the recipe).

My confusion was because [MENTION=13009]Paraxis[/MENTION] was talking about formulas from 1e, which also exist in 5e. The only other thing I could think he meant was that somewhere in 1e it actually spelled out how to make each individual item, but I don't recall ever seeing that.

As an aside, IIRC, the gold prices for magic items in 2e were only meant as a basis for rewarding xp for the crafting of those items (and maybe also for awarding xp if following the xp for gold rule, I'm not certain). I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the DMG it stated that those "prices" were not intended for the buying or selling of magic items.

 

[Paraxis]

I think I'm misunderstanding something. 5e does have magic item formulas, which allow you to craft those items.

If you're referring to recipes for individual items, I don't recall seeing that in any of the earlier editions. Just examples of magic item crafting that involved making deals with dwarves (or something like that, it's been a while).

5th editions system only has 5 very broad general categories of items and they don't seem to be in those categories based on usefulness. The best example of this is the ioun stone of strength (+2 str, max 20, can be targeted in combat) vs some of the belts of giant strength, the ioun stone is very rare same as a 25 strength belt, and the 21 strength belt is only rare.
With guidelines like this and how broad they are to begin with the item crafting in 5e is a mess.

Rules Cyclopedia had a formula you could use to figure out the crafting cost of almost any item in the book on an individual basis.
1st edition had individual experience point costs per item in the DMG used for crafting, and potentially selling.
2nd edition had the encyclopedia magic volumes 1-4 with every item published in the history of D&D up to that point with individual item prices.
3rd edition was the best of all worlds, but flawed. It had individual item prices and formulas for making your own.
4th same, but sadly the magic items were all kinda dull, IMO.

So we went from having some sort of individual system, to more and more balanced systems, I will agree to the flaws in all those systems and there were plenty but at least the guidelines were there and were done on an item by item basis.

5th ehh, it is such a hassle you might as well not even bother crafting or setting up magic item shops in your world, and with some settings that is an issue.

 

[Fanaelialae]

5th editions system only has 5 very broad general categories of items and they don't seem to be in those categories based on usefulness. The best example of this is the ioun stone of strength (+2 str, max 20, can be targeted in combat) vs some of the belts of giant strength, the ioun stone is very rare same as a 25 strength belt, and the 21 strength belt is only rare.
With guidelines like this and how broad they are to begin with the item crafting in 5e is a mess.

Rules Cyclopedia had a formula you could use to figure out the crafting cost of almost any item in the book on an individual basis.
1st edition had individual experience point costs per item in the DMG used for crafting, and potentially selling.
2nd edition had the encyclopedia magic volumes 1-4 with every item published in the history of D&D up to that point with individual item prices.
3rd edition was the best of all worlds, but flawed. It had individual item prices and formulas for making your own.
4th same, but sadly the magic items were all kinda dull, IMO.

So we went from having some sort of individual system, to more and more balanced systems, I will agree to the flaws in all those systems and there were plenty but at least the guidelines were there and were done on an item by item basis.

5th ehh, it is such a hassle you might as well not even bother crafting or setting up magic item shops in your world, and with some settings that is an issue.

I see, thanks for clarifying!

EDIT:
Something that just occurred to me. It's not a perfect fix, but possibly a functional one. Since rarities have a range of cost, you could set the Giant Str Belts at the upper end and the Ioun Stone at the lower end. At that point the Ioun Stone is only 1 gp more than the 21 Str Belt, which puts it closer to where it should be power-wise.

 

[Staffan]

As an aside, IIRC, the gold prices for magic items in 2e were only meant as a basis for rewarding xp for the crafting of those items (and maybe also for awarding xp if following the xp for gold rule, I'm not certain). I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the DMG it stated that those "prices" were not intended for the buying or selling of magic items.

Core 2e didn't have magic item prices, and the DMG had some pretty dire warnings about allowing the sale and purchase of magic items. It did have XP values which were awarded for making that item, and later expansions latched onto those as a numerical expression of the item's power.

I do believe the Magic Item Compendium series included gp values, though.

 

[Klaus]

Most adventurers will shoot for the "Comfortable" lifestyle (small cottage or private room), which is 2gp per day. So the PCs go on an adventure for a week and each returns with 600 gp. This means they can enjoy the good life for 10 months. After that, they have to go at it again. If you keep this rhythm, the PCs are going on an adventure almost once per year, which might be realistic (if not exactly exciting).

You might couple that with Training, adding another 250 gp to the cost above, and the PCs will spend 850 every 10 months, and come out of their downtime with a new language or tool proficiency.

 

[PnPgamer]

Hookers and blow

Why do I keep seeing this answer everywhere around internet?

 

[Nebulous]

Sure, though since the Basic rules (and PHB) include lifestyle costs, your players might object.

IIRC, the 1st Ed DMG had a rule that PCs had to pay 1% of their XP total in gold as a lifestyle expense each month. One of those tiny rules tucked away in 1st Ed that I suspect nobody much used.

ok, so maybe 5% is much more reasonable. Well, I guess it depends on how lavish a lifestyle the PCs want to pretend they have.

 

[Nebulous]

5th ehh, it is such a hassle you might as well not even bother crafting or setting up magic item shops in your world, and with some settings that is an issue.

Yeah, this works for my game because I don't allow crafting/magic shops except for low level expendable stuff.

 

[Remathilis]

To be honest, the 3e/4e approach was pretty absurd too: you went adventuring to buy gold in order to get gear to go adventuring? Why not just stay at home where it's safe if all you're getting for the risk are the tools to do the job.

At this point, the thing to do is to remove gold as the default 'reward' from the game. Let each adventurer find his own motivation: some will do it purely to become Big Damn Heroes, some will do it for the fame, some to accumulate noble titles and political favour. And some will choose to do it for gold... but in that case they don't need to ask "what's the gold for?" Presumably, they decided that when they decided their PC wanted gold!

It got to the point in my Pathfinder game that a PC interested in fixing up a broken manor home (about 2k in repairs) was chastised by another player for wasting gold on that when he could buy a +1 weapon with it.

That kind of thinking is why I hate craft/shop anything magical rules.