Whats the rules for PDFs?

[yeebarr]

I originally posted this in the general discussion but was told this might be the place to get a correct answer.

I've just bought a couple of excellent downloads (i.e. "Tournaments, Fairs and Taverns", "4CTF", etc) and after a couple of my fellow players saw them they asked if they could get copies.

So my question is, what are the rules for me printing out PDFs? Can I only print out the PDF once or am I allowed to print it out as many times as I want?

I don't want to step on any legal toes here so I just thought I'd better do the right thing and ask.

Thanks for your time!

 

[Khan the Warlord]

As with other types of media, you can make one copy of the .pdf for back-up reasons and one for your printing pleasure (don't quote me -- IANAL). Hmm... maybe it is just one copy period, or as many as you like as long as it is for your own personal use.

*shrug*

However, while it is the right thing to do by making one copy for yourself and yourself only, no publisher can really discover if you made a zillion print copies for your friends or not. Well, I guess they could know if any of your friends went and told on ya.

But seriously, it is really up to the individual and their own moral mindset. Chances are that if you're cool with stealing .mp3s and the like off of P2P clients, then you're probably going to make as many copies (in print or .pdf) as you like of the books you purchased.

 

[Moonlion]

I just thought I'd better do the right thing

The right thing is to have your friends buy the PDF if they are really interested in it.

Don't steal.

 

[yeebarr]

The right thing is to have your friends buy the PDF if they are really interested in it.

Don't steal.

Ok - thanks Moonlion

Just trying to clarify that printing multiple copies was stealing! (Yeah trust me - I really am THAT ignorant of the PDF laws!)

 

[Dextra]

piracy, sharing, you be the judge

Print out one PDF for yourself and loan it out, no problem. But don't print out multiple copies unless the publisher explicity says so. For example, the Kids Colouring Book (coming out in November) encourages people to print out multiple copies to share with their families and friends.
But c'mon. Considering the price of your average PDF, and the fact that the majority of us putting out PDFs are smaller companies (Ambient is myself, my husband, and our artist friend, Squidhead) just trying to break even, printing out multiple copies just plain sucks.
Loan them the print out during game sessions, sure. But if they liked it, let 'em buy it.

 

[RangerWickett]

Well, of course I'd encourage you to have your friends buy copies too, I can see how convenience and cost might not balance out well.

For instance, I own a copy of Sword & Fist, and one of my players plays a Fighter, so he asks to borrow S&F for a week. So the book is at his house. Then, one night I'm prepping for a game, and I realize that I really want a Lasher as an NPC. Now, I could call my friend at 3am and ask him to bring back the book. Even if the NPC was really important, I probably would not do that. However, if I had a pdf of S&F (y'know, let's assume WotC sold the pdf), and my friend asked to read it, I would feel safe letting them borrow my printed out version, since I have a copy on my computer. With a normal book, I'd just have to grin and bear it, and wouldn't decide to go out and buy a copy of S&F at 3am. So, in this case, I don't think the publisher loses out.

Now, if two friends both asked to borrow the book at the same time, with a normal print book I could only let one borrow it. Realistically, player 2 would just wait for player 1 to finish, probably. If he really liked the book, he'd buy a copy himself though. If I had a pdf, though, I might think, "Okay, give player 1 a copy, and player 2 a copy, and keep the pdf file for myself." In this case, the publisher might have lost out on a sale.

Finally, say you want all of your players to have copies of the rules for, say, Bahly (a game from Tournaments, Fairs, & Taverns). You could make them all buy the pdf for $5, but that's not fair. Instead, you just print 4 copies of the three pages that pertain to Bahly. That's why pdfs are cool, since you can do things like this.

So, in general, I'd encourage you to only print one copy at a time. In a pinch you can still read it yourself on your computer, and it's quite unlikely that you'll cheat the publisher out of a copy. Of course, if your friend says, "Yeah, I'm really thinking of buying this book, but I want to take a look first," sure, print him a copy if he wants, but hold him to buying a copy if he likes it.

Basically, it's a not a clear-cut issue. I'd say that you can definitely make partial copies for whoever you want, if those copies pertain to the game. At most, though, you shouldn't print more than 2 copies (one for yourself, one to let someone borrow).

 

[yeebarr]

Hey thanks RangerWickett!

I appreciate your views on the subject (especically since it's one of your products I've just bought!)

Laws aside I really would prefer my friends buy their own copies just to keep you in business so you can keep making excellent stuff for me to read!

I guess I got a little confused when one of my friends said I could make as many copies as I like (so why not just give him one?) In the end I just lent him my copy and asked that he give it back (but I'm still waiting - dang it!)

I just wanted to clear up my confusion on the subject.

Thanks again!

 

[2WS-Steve]

One other bit; a surprising number of PDF products designate all or almost all the text as open content. You can extract the text, remove the non-open content, update the OGL at the back, and distribute that to your friends; and that's all perfectly legal.

 

[Morrus]

One other bit; a surprising number of PDF products designate all or almost all the text as open content. You can extract the text, remove the non-open content, update the OGL at the back, and distribute that to your friends; and that's all perfectly legal.

But not nice. And definitely likely to discourage the publishers of those products from being so generous with OGC in future.

 

[2WS-Steve]

Frankly it wouldn't discourage me and in "Bodies and Souls" I only closed the small quotes at the beginning of creature descriptions and the artwork.

I agree that it'd be rude and potentially discouraging if I then saw that posted to websites. On the other hand, at the prices we charge for PDF's and the sales volume I'm not even sure we'd see a decline. A number of people might be willing to spend a pint of Bass to get the real thing; at any rate I would.

Using the open content in accordance with the OGL strikes me as a better option than having customers simply share around copies of the whole thing.

Still, I agree with Morrus that just because your odometer hit 21 doesn't mean you can start crank-calling Loki (or something like that...) If you do spread the open content around the internet you'll see less open content in future e-products and that would be bad for everybody.