What's Up With The Monk?

[LokiDR]

Originally posted by Gizzard
...
It seems this is the first "real" thing that happens; does the Monk do any damage to the party before they Fireball themselves? How much of that damage at the end was done by the Monk, vs how much was done by the Pits or the Fireball?

Although, on the flip-side, how did a level 5 Mnk/Ftr outfight a Mnk7? The Mnk/Ftr should only swing once with a katana, while the Mnk7 should get three swings with the Flurry, right? I'd expect the Mnk7 to put out more damage toe-to-toe or to avoid the counterstrike altogther if he was Spring-Attacking.

I think its worth noting that the Mnk7 seemed to be hanging in there for a while, but as soon as he decides he has to "go after the party" he gets smashed.

But in any case, it sounds like a very exciting combat. (Certainly I expect the Centaur to have a little chat with the Wizard if the Wizard gets raised. "And you hoped I could suck up the damage from a Fireball? If you ever do anything like that again, you little two-legged freak....")

The funny part was the centaur (reincarnated human) just drank a potion of alter self to get into the catacomb. After the number of times he has died, I would believe he would just be happy he lived.

As for what the monk did, I can only really tell you what he didn't. He didn't act like a barbarian. His mobility, especially with the web, made him cool. The burning of the web spell is what killed the wiz in the end, not his own fireball. I would like to think of this as the monk manipulating the party by use of combat skills and movement.

The reason I wanted the monk to go after them was to show human fault: arrogence. From an out of game perspective, I just didn't want to deal with them comming back with artillery. Maybe the terrain was a little too mean, maybe the traps too much, maybe I ruled bad on the web. I wasn't going to screw them perminately for some harsh DMing.

 

[LokiDR]

....

However, in retrospect I admit that I am perplexed that the mnk/ftr defeated the monk NPC. Gizzard's right on that one...

That comes from the monks tatics. The monk/ftr went up the stairs, the monk readied to do a partial charge. The mnk/ftr chugs a cure lite, the monk chugs a cure lite. In the end, the mnk/ftr had a lot more cure lites to use, as he drank the whole parties supply (7 or 8) while the monk only had 2, plus his 14 natual healing. The centaur did some damage befor he went down, so the monk only had 14 when it was done to mnk/ftr and monk. 2 levels or not, the mnk/ftr only needed one good shot to take him down. Monk hits, mnk/ftr hits for max damage and the monk drops his kama. Monk takes one last swing and the mnk/ftr puts him really down (-7). Make a bit more sense? The party softened the monk up enough to allow this.

And yes, it was an exciting battle.

 

[Hakkenshi]

Ah, okay, that does indeed make more sense. That amount of detail is important

 

[LokiDR]

hey, I was getting writers cramp

 

[greymarch]

My gaming group has had high level monks, low level monks, demi-human monks, and even tatooed monks and shintao monks, and the one common problem for all of them has been their to hit rolls. Monks have a poor to hit bonus; they cannot hit anyone! Otherwise, monks kick butt. They SR, evasion, good saving throws, massive damage dice, lots of attacks, good armor class.

 

[LokiDR]

My gaming group has had high level monks, low level monks, demi-human monks, and even tatooed monks and shintao monks, and the one common problem for all of them has been their to hit rolls. Monks have a poor to hit bonus; they cannot hit anyone! Otherwise, monks kick butt. They SR, evasion, good saving throws, massive damage dice, lots of attacks, good armor class.

To review that past 13 pages:
SR is high level, isn't it boring until then?
Evasion is good, but rogues get it too.
Saves and Armor: what good is a well defended target if he does nothing useful
Massive damage dice don't come till high level. Barbarian has d12 at first.
Lot of attacks: sure on full attack. Check math previous in this thread for real damage dished out.

Bottom line: Monks are not fighters, any more than rogues are. A monk who charges into combat like a fighter is going to die. The class supports other uses pretty well, like scouting. The class is pretty veristile but not customizable. A good monk player can find good uses for their skills. A person who is just starting is better off with a barbarian.

 

[greymarch]

A monk is a warrior, just like a fighter. Hell, they have their own special book, Swords and Fist, and are included with fighters in that book.

 

[Villano]

Final Rundown

Just for the record, what was the damage inflicted by the monk vs. the fireball and traps? Just a rough figure. I want to see if a 7th level monk is better or worse than a 5th level wizard (one who can cast web and fireball).

 

[LokiDR]

The fireball hit for 26. Every person in the web that also got fireballed took 8 from the buring web. Both rolls were very good (6d6 fireball, max on burning web), so I guess a level 5 wizard would have been almost as effective. The wizard would have been turned into swiss cheese pretty quickly by the centaur. You never can predict the dice

 

[LokiDR]

A monk is a warrior, just like a fighter. Hell, they have their own special book, Swords and Fist, and are included with fighters in that book.

Monk vs barbarian of same level: monk loses more often than not. Monk vs fighter, same result. This has been discussed here extensively. The monk simply can not stand in a toe to toe fight with the straight fighter classes. If you think that is the monk's job, you are missing their BAB progression, class skills, and movement. If you don't believe me, read the rest of this thread.