Gabriel Pendragon
First Post
As I recall thrown weapons that don't have the finesse property are STR based.
D&D 5E What's up with the Net?
- Thread starter Hriston
- Start date
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
Correct. Throwing a weapon is a special form of ranged attack, which uses whatever stats are appropriate for the weapon for its normal melee attacks. The PHB specifically calls out the difference between handaxes (Str-only) and daggers (Str or Dex, because of Finesse).
Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth (He/him)
This is only true for melee weapons. The net is a ranged weapon, so Dex.
Gabriel Pendragon
First Post
Not true, it does not have finesse so it is STR based. Fired ranged weapons are DEX thrown weapons without finesse are STR. Otherwise the dart wouldn't need the finesse property.
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
As far as I can tell, this is correct. The Net is not a "ranged" weapon, it is a thrown weapon. Since its range is listed as "5/15 feet," it's a "thrown" weapon with effectively melee range (which is, itself, also bizarre). So it actually does seem to be Strength--but the rules are completely ambiguous.
There is no "ranged" property, so we cannot refer to that. In the abilities section on Dexterity, the examples of "ranged weapons" are slings and bows--so we don't know if it applies to nets. It would seem like the net's only use is to be thrown--so it has no melee attacks, which is what the description of "thrown" depends upon!
So I think we've found an actual rules hole. The book straight up doesn't tell us what ability score to use!
Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth (He/him)
Now hold on a minute. Before you jump to conclusions and say that what I said isn't true, why don't you actually read the rules you're talking about? You seem to be missing some of the finer points of the weapons properties rules. First of all, I think we can agree that a ranged weapon attack uses Dex as the modifier unless something breaks that rule. An attack with a net is a ranged weapon attack, so by default a net attack is made with a Dex modifier unless it has some property that changes that. Now what about the thrown property? Notice that all ranged weapons either have the ammunition or thrown property. You don't need ammunition to attack with a net because you throw the net itself. That's why it has the thrown property. The only quality the thrown property confers on a ranged weapon, in fact, is you can throw it to make a ranged attack. That's it. If a melee weapon has the thrown property then you can make a ranged attack with that weapon using you Strength modifier, but the net is a ranged weapon. There's nothing in the text of the thrown property that says it allows you to use Strength when attacking with a ranged weapon.
Now, you also mention the finesse property. The finesse property allows you to choose either Strength or Dex for the attack roll, regardless of whether you're making a ranged or melee attack. The dart's finesse property isn't required for you to attack with Dex, because it's a ranged weapon with which you're making a ranged attack. The dart's finesse property is required to allow you to attack with Strength, because without it you could only use Dex.
Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth (He/him)
It is a ranged weapon with the thrown property. You seem to be ignoring the fact that the net is listed under the heading "Martial Ranged Weapons" on the Weapons chart. Ranged weapons are a thing. Several rules refer to whether a weapon is a melee weapon or a ranged weapon.
It isn't bizarre at all when you consider it's perfectly possible, if not ideal, to shoot a bow at a target within melee range. Besides, 15 feet is well past melee range, so I'm not sure what you mean.
I'm not saying the ambiguity doesn't exist for you, but I don't see it. Where do you get the idea that ranged weapon attacks using a net are made with a Strength modifier?
There doesn't need to be. It's an entire class of weapons.
Are you seriously missing the chart where nets are under the heading "Martial Ranged Weapons"?
Thrown just means you can throw it, i.e you don't need ammunition to make a ranged attack with it. Melee weapons with the thrown property have an additional rule that says they use Strength to make a ranged attack (or your choice of Strength or Dex if they have the finesse property). As you've pointed out, the net is not a melee weapon.
There's no hole. It tells you which modifier to use right here: "The ability modifier used for a melee weapon attack is Strength, and the ability modifier used for a ranged weapon attack is Dexterity."
Tony Vargas
Legend
The correct answer to the question 'which stat do you use to attack with a Net?' is the one your DM gives you. Excessively parse the rules and weigh the meaning of the RAW if that's how you want to reach a ruling as a DM, but as a player it's wasted effort. Your DM may just think 'retiarii were big guys, we'll go with STR' or 'attacking with a net doesn't make sense, your target will make a DEX save to avoid becoming entangled, followed by STR saves to break free' or 'either STR or DEX is fine with me.'
Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth (He/him)
You don't need to "excessively parse" the rules to come to the conclusion that net attacks add Dex to the roll. All you need to do is read the rules. They're quite clear.
Of course if your DM rules otherwise, whether due to his own lack of reading the rules or some other concern, you are free to abide by the ruling, argue with the DM, or find another table to play at, just as in any other consideration in any other thread in this forum. Instead of calling it ENWorld, maybe they should call it "Ask your DM".
