D&D 5E What's up with the Net?

[Tony Vargas]

You don't need to "excessively parse" the rules to come to the conclusion that net attacks add Dex to the roll.

Not that I don't appreciate the effort, but, yes I think that's a fair way of putting what you did, above. The idea that the 'Finesse' attribute was added to /enable/ STR use, for instance, is wildly counter-intuitive. It's the kind of gem you uncover and polish only with a very close reading of the rules, indeed. Kudos for making that effort and sharing it.

There's just no need to go on arguing it (or arguing against it, Ezekiel). It's ultimately the DM's call.

Of course if your DM rules otherwise, whether due to his own lack of reading the rules or some other concern

'Other concerns' like wanting to run a fun game, sure.

, you are free to abide by the ruling,

yes

argue with the DM

Only if you like being 'wrong.'

or find another table to play at

more than welcome.

Instead of calling it ENWorld, maybe they should call it "Ask your DM".

The 5e PH could just be a pamphlet with 'ASK YOUR DM' in big, friendly letters. ;P

 

[Hriston]

Not that I don't appreciate the effort, but, yes I think that's a fair way of putting what you did, above. The idea that the 'Finesse' attribute was added to /enable/ STR use, for instance, is wildly counter-intuitive. It's the kind of gem you uncover and polish only with a very close reading of the rules, indeed. Kudos for making that effort and sharing it.

But it's exactly what the finesse property says: "you use your choice of your Strength or Dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls." So if you're using a weapon that normally uses a Dex modifier (e.g. because it's a ranged weapon), the finesse property of that weapon lets you use Strength instead. It's only excessive if you consider reading comprehension excessive.

 

[Tony Vargas]

But it's exactly what the finesse property says

Of course it is. But, it's not what 'finesse' means in natural language. In 4e, it'd've of made perfect sense to go with the jargon meaning. In 3.x, the community zietgiest would've been RAW all the way. 5e is the DM's game. It's nice to know what the rules might technically or literally say, but the DM is free to rule however actually makes sense.

I see 'ranged weapon' and think 'DEX,' myself, so don't think I'm arguing /against/ your conclusion, but when running I'd be more flexible depending on the character (and concept) and situation.

 

[Hriston]

Of course it is. But, it's not what 'finesse' means in natural language. In 4e, it'd've of made perfect sense to go with the jargon meaning. In 3.x, the community zietgiest would've been RAW all the way. 5e is the DM's game. It's nice to know what the rules might technically or literally say, but the DM is free to rule however actually makes sense.

The term "finesse weapon" has no natural meaning in the English language that I know of, beyond what it means in the game. The "finesse property" is a unique entity that has no meaning other than what it is stated to be in the rule-book. Finesse is a noun or a verb, not an adjective. This is clearly a piece of game jargon. A natural meaning is unavailable.

I see 'ranged weapon' and think 'DEX,' myself, so don't think I'm arguing /against/ your conclusion, but when running I'd be more flexible depending on the character (and concept) and situation.

I didn't think that. What you seem to be arguing against is my attempt to explain myself to someone who took issue with me stating something that I felt was obviously stated in the rules. I guess you think it's pointless to explain to someone so sure of themselves that their objection is based on a misinterpretation. You're probably right. I don't seem to have made a difference.

 

[Hriston]

One of the things people don't seem to understand about fifth edition is how natural language is used in the books. You can only interpret the rules based on a natural language meaning when the authors are using natural language. When they're intentionally butchering the English language, that's a signal that a piece of game jargon is being constructed.