Whats w/ class limitations for my gnome???

[Darklone]

Easy

Why... don't... you .... simply.... ask .... him?


Sorry Driddle. If your DM says it's gonna be like that and you are not allowed to do this, go whining and pleading and bartering for other things. That's roleplaying.

If he does not want you to play a gnome bard, go with that rogue/illusionist. With many skill points on perform. Call him Bart Simpson. Or something like that.

It is not sure that your DM plays 2nd edition, it may as well be that he LIKED those things in 2nd ed and houseruled them into 3rd. Does not matter actually. He uses them. Poor chap.

Hey wolfspider and rest, don't say ANYTHING about my post counter! I know I have been lazy

 

[Coyote]

If he has level limits, he's playing 1st edition.

If he doesn't allow half-orcs at all, he's playing 2nd edition

If he has Feats and Skills, he's playing third edition.

If all three are true.... well, he's the DM he can do what he wants, but he's playing some weird hybrid.

As a player, you have a right to know what his "house rules" are with respect to player characters. You can't play the game if you don't know the rules. Find out what edition he's playing, and then ask him if you could get a complete list of the modifications he's made to that edition's rules, and what rulebooks he "allows" at his table for rules (supplements, etc.)

If the guy has so many house rules he can't POSSIBLY begin to list them all (or write them all down), then to me it's the same as a DM having no rules. He's making it up as he goes. This is a very frustrating experience as a player. If you are good friends with the guy and TRUST HIM, you can still play in that kind of campaign, but otherwise it'll probably give you a lot of grief.

 

[adndgamer]

Right now my wager is on that he's playing 3e, but using house rules. Pretty much the same as mine

There's something that's just not right about dwarven wizards.. blech.

 

[Jerrid Al-Kundo]

Actually, Racial Restrictions are a condoned variant in 3E (DMG, page 21).

Now, for the record, I do use them myself. However, I am a firm believer in explaining why these limitations exist. For instance, I allow Dwarven Sorcerers, but have house-ruled in Elemental Magic and Dwarves are limited to Fire, Earth or Divination-based Sorcerers, but no other Arcane Class is permitted to them. By the same token, some races on my world are defined as "from beyond" and thus can't become Druids because the Earth Goddess rejects them (consequently, none of the PH races are effected by this, although a few home-brew races are).

So, yes, a DM does have the authority to impose such restrictions, and it's not necessarily Edition-shock. However, a fair DM will develop a reason for such limitations that make sense within the parameters of the specific campaign; Not doing so is simply being arbitrary.

 

[Hejdun]

Well, I think the guy is playing 3rd edition all right.

However, I don't htink he is keeping with the intended spirit of the game. Which is all right, I guess, I mean, it is HIS game to customize. The fun of the game is customizing it to fit your wants/needs. Kudos to him for doing that, and making it more enjoyable to him.

Personally, I don't think there should be any class/race restrictions, as it is kind of butchering the concept of 3rd edition, and the "do whatever" feel of the races/classes.

But, those are my opinions, and I'm not going to insult him if he doens't agree with me.


You have to decide if you like the way he plays his games, or if you don't. If you don't, then you can either live with it, or find a new group to play with, or have another DM take over for a little who doensn't feel the way your current DM does.

BTW, the getting the Monster Manual so you'll "be prepared" is commonly called "meta-gaming". At least, by the way you described it...

 

[Aaron L]

I think the DM is pretty sad. 3E comes along and he looks at the books and sees more options. "Oops, these don't fit into my narrowly defined concept of fantasy. They're out. No, I don't care if the players like it. Out."

I never undersatood why a 1600 year old elf couldn't use magic as well as a 60 year old human. Or a 100 year old dwarf soldier couldn't fight as well as a 30 year old human. Level limitaiations were horrendously stupid. We had to come up with all kinds of wonky explainations for why they were present.

And class/race limitations were just as bad. Why can a dwarf not be trained in magic? In Norse mythology, (which Tolkiens dwarves come from) dwarves were magical creatures and cast spells. And not allowing a gnomish bard? Thats just ridiculous.

 

[S'mon]

I think the DM is pretty sad. 3E comes along and he looks at the books and sees more options. "Oops, these don't fit into my narrowly defined concept of fantasy. They're out. No, I don't care if the players like it. Out."

I never undersatood why a 1600 year old elf couldn't use magic as well as a 60 year old human. Or a 100 year old dwarf soldier couldn't fight as well as a 30 year old human. Level limitaiations were horrendously stupid. We had to come up with all kinds of wonky explainations for why they were present.

And class/race limitations were just as bad. Why can a dwarf not be trained in magic? In Norse mythology, (which Tolkiens dwarves come from) dwarves were magical creatures and cast spells. And not allowing a gnomish bard? Thats just ridiculous.

I generally don't allow any race but human, and I recently instituted a ban on bards in my PBEM game (too many people think 'bard' means 'entertainer'). I never allow halflings or gnomes. Strangely enough I get very few complaints.

 

[adndgamer]

I think the DM is pretty sad. 3E comes along and he looks at the books and sees more options. "Oops, these don't fit into my narrowly defined concept of fantasy. They're out. No, I don't care if the players like it. Out."

I never undersatood why a 1600 year old elf couldn't use magic as well as a 60 year old human. Or a 100 year old dwarf soldier couldn't fight as well as a 30 year old human. Level limitaiations were horrendously stupid. We had to come up with all kinds of wonky explainations for why they were present.

And class/race limitations were just as bad. Why can a dwarf not be trained in magic? In Norse mythology, (which Tolkiens dwarves come from) dwarves were magical creatures and cast spells. And not allowing a gnomish bard? Thats just ridiculous.

Eh, to each his own.

If it doesn't fit the game that he wants to run, then that's his perogative. A more open/free class and race mixture might suit some people's needs, but others might not like the idea. Especially if they're going for a more classic-dnd style game.

I agree with whoever it was that said that there should be reasonings behind prohibiting classes though. My reasoning for no dwarven wizards is that in DnD, Dwarves have always been anti-magic in nature (they still get a +2 save vs spells, IIRC). If we were playing a game based MORE on real-world mythology, then I wouldn't have a problem with dwarven wizards. But, that would be a different game.

But yeah, to each his own That's the great thing about DnD -- that you can do whatever you want with your game. You like something, I don't. So we play it different ways.

-Paul

 

[Aaron L]

Yes, but if your players don't like it? Diddle apparently really wanted to play a gnomish bard, but his DM denied it flat.I would suggest that this is a bad DM. I also have a tightly defined world, but this is only in race availability, not class selection. Not allowing certain races to persue certain professions has always seemed absurd to me.

 

[adndgamer]

Hm. Yeah, I guess that the gnomish (gnemsh?) bard idea isn't one that I'd deny. It's just the dwarven wizard thing that gets me that I don't like about 3e. That, I'd deny flat out.

Hm. I'd ask the DM to supply reasoning. And hey, if he doens't like the style, he can always find another group (though in other threads he has expressed that he's having some trouble with that). He could also take on DMing on his own, and allow gnomish bards in his world.