Whats w/ class limitations for my gnome???

[S'mon]

Yes, but if your players don't like it? Diddle apparently really wanted to play a gnomish bard, but his DM denied it flat.I would suggest that this is a bad DM. I also have a tightly defined world, but this is only in race availability, not class selection. Not allowing certain races to persue certain professions has always seemed absurd to me.

We-ell... You have a point, eg why not allow gnomish paladins? But some classes are culturally specific - monks, barbarians, druids and bards are good examples. The GM is within his rights to say that certain races do not produce certain classes - eg if your world's elves are super-civilised there may be no barbarian elves.

Likewise if the campaign world's dwarves are inherently non-magical, and there are no NPC dwarf spellcasters, the GM should not be forced to allow PC dwarven spellcasters just so the player can have the class/race combo he wants.

 

[Driddle]

As a player, you have a right to know what his "house rules" are with respect to player characters. You can't play the game if you don't know the rules. Find out what edition he's playing, and then ask him if you could get a complete list of the modifications he's made to that edition's rules, and what rulebooks he "allows" at his table for rules (supplements, etc.)

If the guy has so many house rules he can't POSSIBLY begin to list them all (or write them all down), then to me it's the same as a DM having no rules. He's making it up as he goes. This is a very frustrating experience as a player. If you are good friends with the guy and TRUST HIM, you can still play in that kind of campaign, but otherwise it'll probably give you a lot of grief.

Hah! I JUST found the "quote" option. Nice option.

So I should ask any new potental DM whether he uses certain rules or not? Like ask him to provide a list of "house rules" so wer'e all on the same page, right? Heck ya - that makes alot of sense. I'll take your sugestion.

Theres this message on the buletin board at the game shop that says the DM will setup "any kind of game the player wants". Its like, yeah, that's what I'm looking for, right? Theres some more info, tho, that i'm not sure about. Probably pretty standard for serious gamers, but i"m not sure. ...

Anyway, I'll do what you sugest when I check this other guy out.

 

[Nish]

We-ell... You have a point, eg why not allow gnomish paladins? But some classes are culturally specific - monks, barbarians, druids and bards are good examples. The GM is within his rights to say that certain races do not produce certain classes - eg if your world's elves are super-civilised there may be no barbarian elves.

At least no elf barbarians living in an elven kingdom. Would you really prevent an elf raised by a human barbarian tribe from being a barbarian? Or how about an elf that becomes sick of the trappings of civilisation and runs off into the wilderness to become one with his primal side? IMO, PC's are supposed to defy conventions to a certain extent. The DM should work to maintain consistency of the game world and keep everything reasonable, but you should also work to encourage the creativity of the players instead of limiting it. Using cultural reasons to place an all out ban on certain race/class combos is a sub-optimal choice, when you could just tell your players the way most of the world works and if they want to be an elven barbarian, tell them to bring a good background story. And definitely make sure you enforce the consequences of their choices

Likewise if the campaign world's dwarves are inherently non-magical, and there are no NPC dwarf spellcasters, the GM should not be forced to allow PC dwarven spellcasters just so the player can have the class/race combo he wants.

Campaign worlds aside for a moment, where in the 3e PH is there anything about Dwarves being anti-magical? The racial +2 to save against magic is interpreted by some as an anti-magical nature, but this interpretation is not supported by the core rules and appears to just be a hold-over from previous editions. A more 3e friendly way to describe this is that dwarves posess a great deal internal strength and durability in addition to their physical toughness, that allows them easily resist the effects of those who would alter reality to harm them.

Be creative. Don't restrict, facilitate.

 

[Buttercup]

I guess some of you wouldn't like my DMing style much.

I've excluded elves, gnomes, halflings and half-orcs. But I added a home-brew race; half-dwarf. Oh, and I allow half-elves. I'll tell you why this makes sense if you want to know.

I also didn't allow bard or barbarian as playable classes.

I'm now working on another campaign world, for a game that will be starting in a few months. I may possibly allow only humans & halflings as starting races. And only have fighter, rogue and sorcerer as starting classes. I'm still thinking about it.

 

[Wolfspider]

I just wanted to let you know that I've finished my analysis of the tissue samples from Driddle that I acquired. I noticed that the tissue showed remarkable regenerative properties, healing from any incisions that I made. When the tissue was exposed to fire, however, it burned normally.

I disposed of the samples in the incinerator and filed away my report as per standard operating procedure.

I hope that my analysis has been useful to this group.

Good day.

 

[maddman75]

I think the DM is pretty sad. 3E comes along and he looks at the books and sees more options. "Oops, these don't fit into my narrowly defined concept of fantasy. They're out. No, I don't care if the players like it. Out."

I never undersatood why a 1600 year old elf couldn't use magic as well as a 60 year old human. Or a 100 year old dwarf soldier couldn't fight as well as a 30 year old human. Level limitaiations were horrendously stupid. We had to come up with all kinds of wonky explainations for why they were present.

And class/race limitations were just as bad. Why can a dwarf not be trained in magic? In Norse mythology, (which Tolkiens dwarves come from) dwarves were magical creatures and cast spells. And not allowing a gnomish bard? Thats just ridiculous.

My alltime favorite 2e racial restriction:

Elves couldn't be druids. Guess they weren't into all that nature stuff

 

[Wolfspider]

Elves couldn't be druids. Guess they weren't into all that nature stuff

Yeah, a ridiculous restriction.

But, heck, in 1st edition (before Unearthed Arcana came out), elves couldnt' even be rangers!

I like 3rd edition.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Basically, Driddle, it sounds like your DM is playing with house-rules. It's the ultimate DM tool -- he can make any rule he wants, and the players kinda hafta agree with it, or find another game.

I'd go with it, for now. DM's (usually) have good reasons to enforce their house rules. Of course, *I* would let you have it, but I'd also let you play a Mimic Barbarian, too. I'm a very lenient DM. My philosophy is "as long as the back story makes sense!"

But I digress. Basically, your DM has altered the rules of the game to his own liking. I'd still try to live within it, but no one says you have to -- find a new DM, one more likely not to house-rule out a 3e rule that, IMHO, is a VERY good rule.

Of course, it also never hurts to ask him "why."

Why can't gnomes be entertainers and jacks-of-all trades? Don't gnomes appreciate music and magic? What's so unbelievable about a gnome who sings, dances, and plays guitar?

You may find his reasons agreeable, or he may just say "because it doesn't make sense!" or "because it was that way in earlier editions, and there's no reason for it to be different!" In which case, I'd find a DM more willing to play closer to the book he's using, or one that is at least willing to make exceptions to his house rules if the player wants it.

In 3e, it's not in the base rules to limit classes and races. The DM can impose whatever rule he wants, however, so it's a moot point if he's using different rules.

 

[Driddle]

Well I visited my local gameing shop and got some more info about the other DM i'm considering. I can tell he's a "pro." - I think.

 

[Wolfspider]

I can tell he's a "pro." - I think.

How? What has he done or said to give you that impression? I'm not sure if I'd want a "pro"--you don't necessarily need someone who is a rules expert or something like that. You need someone who has a good imaginaiton and good storytelling and arbitration skills....