What's wrong with the single-classed Ranger?

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

You don't need go scores to play any class, let alone the ranger.

One word: Psions.

 

[Kai Lord]

Re: Re: Re: Movie Tangent!!!

Huh?

LOL. He sure got me wondering what counting to two and teleportation had to do with the ending of The Transporter (I haven't seen it).

 

[melkoriii]

In my games Ranger’s and Paladin’s are multi-classed characters. Ether Fighter type/Cleric or Fighter type /Druid. I don’t play with the weapon restrictions for Druids. I added a feat Favored Enemy that stacks with prerequisites based off Wilderness Lore and BAB.

 

[Chun-tzu]

Interesting. I never pictured Aragorn with black skin and white hair.

I think what Pax meant by only Drizzt fitting the Ranger archetype is that other classic Rangers, like Aragorn, don't resemble the PHB Ranger very much (two-weapon fighting, favored enemies, spellcasting).

I'm also in the camp that thinks Ranger is a fine class, but it's a little too narrowly defined, so I greatly prefer the variability of Monte's Ranger. I also like Monte's Ranger feats (Favored Emeny Strike, Favored Enemy Critical Strike) because they give Rangers a chance to be in the spotlight. Barbarians kick butt when they're raging, Paladins when they're smiting, and Rangers should kick butt against their Favored Enemies.

Btw, could someone please post the monte alt. ranger or where I can see it, I've never gotten a chance to look at it.

Here you go, Stalk.
http://www.montecook.com/arch_stuff3.html


I liked the first half of the Transporter. The story kind of fell apart and became a Hollywood cliche in the stuff leading up to the big finish.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Movie Tangent!!!

LOL. He sure got me wondering what counting to two and teleportation had to do with the ending of The Transporter (I haven't seen it).

2 trucks chased one stopped yeah I win, teleportation is more the action genre thing of people popping up where they logically couldn't arrive. If you throw the bad guy off a cliff buck naked he will somehow find his way to th top of the mountain before you even though you used a helicopter, and the interesting phenom of cops materializing once everthing is handled. Oh all the bad guys are dead, I guess its safe for us to show up now.

 

[Clear Dragon]

While I am not playing one in his campaign my current DM made a few simple changes that made the ranger seem a bit more plausible. TWF and Ambi were dropped and bonus feats are spread out among the class (like fighter bonus feats, only mostly archery and other wilderness appropriate sytles). But the main change he did that i think is the best is dropping favored enemies for favored terrains. The ranger should but more deadly on his home turf, harder to spot and hide from. As he travels and levels up he can learn how to become effective in more types of land.

note: I have not read other alt.rangers so i don't know how original his idea was.

 

[bret]

I really think people undervalue skills way too much. Maybe it is a campaign dependent thing, but fighters have a much harder time in my game than rangers all because of 2 skill points and crap class skills. Be able to kill things is a worthy and noble goal, but if that is all you do you're going to suck in large portions of my games.

It is very campaign dependent, both in how valuable certain skills are and which skills never get used.

If the GM makes encounters in a variety of environments and gives opportunities for roleplaying then skills will be more useful.

In a straight dungeon crawl through 10' x 10' areas, they really aren't going to be much use.

 

[Spatzimaus]

The Ranger is fine, balancewise; full BAB/HP, good skill list and skill points, good spell list, three free feats. Full weapons, and the light-armor thing doesn't hurt you since in 3E light armor and high DEX beats heavy armor (usually).

It's just horribly frontloaded and inflexible. One level of it is great (especially at 1st level). Rogue is the only other class I see people use 1 or 2 levels in; lots of caster types don't mind losing a level of spell ability to have a level of Ranger.

The problem are the next six levels: one Favored Enemy increase and (assuming WIS 19 or less) two first-level spells per day by level 7? And, as all of these others have mentioned, you're either stuck being a Drizzt clone or wasting two Feats (which, by the way, you don't have to meet the prerequisites for). So, unless you're planning on going 20 levels as a Ranger, people just don't go more than 1 level. Why go Ranger 7 when you could go Ranger 1/Fighter 6 for four extra Feats, one of which can be Weapon Specialization?

Part of the solution, IMHO, is to space out the abilities better. Move the feats back a few levels (like the Monte Cook alt.ranger), and space out the Favored Enemy a bit differently (see other thread). Frankly, I don't think the PHB class needs any more than that.

The Monte Cook alt.Ranger is just a bit too powerful, I think; to me, the d8 HD balances the extra 2 skill points, so it's only trading the two pseudo-Feats for SEVEN bonus Feats. Oh, and it now has two good saves.
(I'd change it to give bonus Feats at 2, 5, and 8 maybe, then no more. At that point the spells start getting good. And, drop one of the two saves to Poor, maybe the Fort save.)

 

[Kai Lord]

If the GM makes encounters in a variety of environments and gives opportunities for roleplaying then skills will be more useful.

In a straight dungeon crawl through 10' x 10' areas, they really aren't going to be much use.

I take it that you believe that Rogues also suck in dungeons?

 

[Wizardry]

I think what Pax meant by only Drizzt fitting the Ranger archetype is that other classic Rangers, like Aragorn, don't resemble the PHB Ranger very much (two-weapon fighting, favored enemies, spellcasting).

I'm also in the camp that thinks Ranger is a fine class, but it's a little too narrowly defined, so I greatly prefer the variability of Monte's Ranger. I also like Monte's Ranger feats (Favored Emeny Strike, Favored Enemy Critical Strike) because they give Rangers a chance to be in the spotlight. Barbarians kick butt when they're raging, Paladins when they're smiting, and Rangers should kick butt against their Favored Enemies.

Montes Ranger is ridiculous from a balance standpoint. Monte even stated that he wouldn't put his Ranger in the PHB if he could. Two good saves, spells, only three less bonus feats than a Fighter, a good skill list, tons of skill points, full Fighter BAB, all for just one less average hp per level when compared to a Fighter. Bleah.