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5E What's wrong with this psion?

What makes this character not a psion?

Human 9th Level Psionic Soul Sorcerer
Cantrips: Friends, Mage Hand, Message, Mind Sliver, Minor Illusion
1st Level: Charm Person, Id Insinuation
2nd Level: Detect Thoughts, Hold Person, Levitate
3rd Level: Fear, Psionnic Blast
4th Level: Confusion, Ego Whip
5th Level: Dominate Person

Metamagic: Subtle Spell, Heightened Spell
 

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Delazar

Explorer
That's the character I play! I also have Catapult and Fly, to simulate my telekinetic powers.


And recently I added a level of Hexblade (refluffed Psiblade) to go for a jedi-like build. I did not take Eldritch Blast (how dare I?), I took Blade Ward and Booming Blade, refluffed as Psychic Blade (does psychic damage instead of thunder).
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
If I had to guess... here are the first few "arguments" why it isn't...

  • Those abilities all use verbal, somatic, and material components. Psion disciplines don't.
  • Those abilities can all be countered by Counterspell. Psion disciplines aren't able to be.
  • Those abilities can only be used in certain combinations per day based upon the "spell slots table". Psion disciplines can be used freely in any combination up to a certain power point.
  • Those abilities only are used via a single subclass, rather than multiple different psionic subclasses, like Telepath, Kineticist, Metamorph, Lurker etc.
  • Those abilities look like magic, feel like magic, and play like magic. Psion disciplines should do none of those things.

Personally, I don't give a rat's ass about any of this stuff, but these are the hills that the diehards die hard on based upon all the previous threads we've seen.
 


dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
What makes this character not a psion?
It uses spell slots. :D

EDIT: Ok, so I said this in jest and according to your information, although you group the "powers" by level, you are not specifying spell level or the use of spell slots. Personally, I think you implied it, but I freely admit I could be wrong about that.
 
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DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
The thing I'll be most curious about is eventually hearing how many of the Psionics players end up using the Psionic Soul sorcerer just as-is... rather than actually using the Spell Point variant rule? Because that variant rule would certainly help with their idea of the fantasy of the psion. Will Psionic Soul players actually go through the effort of converting Spell Points? Or will they just use spell slots to avoid the hassle despite claiming that they are an anathema to true psions?
 


DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Yeah, well, if any of the psion fans could have actually agreed on anything regarding how psionics should have appeared, I'd be a lot more forgiving. But when every single one had their own singular idiosyncratic belief about what psionics and psions HAD to be... I realized that not a single thing WotC did was ever going to make them happy.

So when WotC just decided to go along with the primary group of D&D players were okay with... those dreaded "casuals"... I was fine with it and not surprised in the least.
 


Retreater

Legend
I mean, it's a psionic-themed sorcerer. It might be a fine character, but for me it doesn't do what I would want it to do.

For me psionics would need to include the following: power points, augmentation, not VSM component-casting based, skill checks to manifest, and psionic combat. Otherwise, it's just a variation of any other spellcasting class.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Yeah, well, if any of the psion fans could have actually agreed on anything regarding how psionics should have appeared, I'd be a lot more forgiving. But when every single one had their own singular idiosyncratic belief about what psionics and psions HAD to be... I realized that not a single thing WotC did was ever going to make them happy.

So when WotC just decided to go along with the primary group of D&D players were okay with... those dreaded "casuals"... I was fine with it and not surprised in the least.

Again, it is somewhat remarkable that WoTC thought that pleasing people who wanted psionics was too hard, so they decided to release psionics to please people who didn't want psionics.

Cool!
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Again, it is somewhat remarkable that WoTC thought that pleasing people who wanted psionics was too hard, so they decided to release psionics to please people who didn't want psionics.

Cool!
Heh.. yeah, well I find it remarkable that those who wanted psionics thought that WotC was actually going to be able to give them exactly what they expected and needed for each of their own individual "must haves" list. ;)
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Heh.. yeah, well I find it remarkable that those who wanted psionics thought that WotC was actually going to be able to give them exactly what they expected and needed for each of their own individual "must haves" list. ;)

I don't know! I'd have to see the exact results of the surveys to know for sure.

For example, we see people (like Ancalagon above) who don't like psionics at all because it's too sci-fi. For all the we know, there were people like that who voted strongly against any psionics. Or maybe they did a good job of controlling for it.

But assuming that you are correct (which, again, I think people repeat as gospel truth even though I haven't seen it properly sourced), it gets into the usual ranking issues that this type of polling can present. For example:

A. Option A (mystic)
B. Option B (mystic revisited)
C. Option C (screw it, make it a sorcerer)
D Option D (no psionics)

Presented in that way, I'd be curious to see what happened. I would assume that many (not all, but many) psionics fans would prefer (A,B),D,C while non-psionic fans would prefer D,C,(A,B).
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
What makes this character not a psion?

Human 9th Level Psionic Soul Sorcerer
Cantrips: Friends, Mage Hand, Message, Mind Sliver, Minor Illusion
1st Level: Charm Person, Id Insinuation
2nd Level: Detect Thoughts, Hold Person, Levitate
3rd Level: Fear, Psionnic Blast
4th Level: Confusion, Ego Whip
5th Level: Dominate Person

Metamagic: Subtle Spell, Heightened Spell
Spells. Arcane power source. External power source. Components to cast those spells.

All of those exclude that character from being a Psion.
 


jmartkdr2

Adventurer
People who want psionics are consistent about one thing: psionic powers aren't spells. If the character casts spells, they're not a psion.

Therefore, the character in the OP isn't a psion. It's a psychic-themed spellcaster.

Now, there's no actual consensus on what psionics are - just that they are not spells. So I understand WotC's problem here - they really ought to just pick an mechanic and run with that, surveys be damned. If the class doesn't suck (and doesn't cast spells) people will get on board. Every other ask is just a detail.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen
I don't know! I'd have to see the exact results of the surveys to know for sure.

For example, we see people (like Ancalagon above) who don't like psionics at all because it's too sci-fi. For all the we know, there were people like that who voted strongly against any psionics. Or maybe they did a good job of controlling for it.

But assuming that you are correct (which, again, I think people repeat as gospel truth even though I haven't seen it properly sourced), it gets into the usual ranking issues that this type of polling can present. For example:

A. Option A (mystic)
B. Option B (mystic revisited)
C. Option C (screw it, make it a sorcerer)
D Option D (no psionics)

Presented in that way, I'd be curious to see what happened. I would assume that many (not all, but many) psionics fans would prefer (A,B),D,C while non-psionic fans would prefer D,C,(A,B).
I notice the actual option they’re going with isn’t even on your list here.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
I mean, it's a psionic-themed sorcerer. It might be a fine character, but for me it doesn't do what I would want it to do.

For me psionics would need to include the following: power points, augmentation, not VSM component-casting based, skill checks to manifest, and psionic combat. Otherwise, it's just a variation of any other spellcasting class.

I'm on the "don't care at all" side. But this post explains a lot me. Thank you! I could get behind this.
 

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