I was gonna make a comment like this until I remembered that the majority of my most favorite D&D games featured neither dungeons nor dragons.
Whats your D&Dism?
- Thread starter boredgremlin
- Start date
I was gonna make a comment like this until I remembered that the majority of my most favorite D&D games featured neither dungeons nor dragons.
2e settings were the best, and they got HP the best of all editions so far.
LOL see its possible.
Blood & Bones
Explorer
I, too, feel that the OP is treading-on-thin in regards to the "edition wars" rule by admin. However, I think the general question is a good one; what defines D&D for you?
For the sake of full disclosure, I started role playing with a basic edition box set, went to 2nd edition, really loved 3rd edition, and am currently interested in Pathfinder. While I understand the appeal of 4th edition, it just never appealed to me personally.
My "core" idea of what D&D is includes Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Gnomes, and probably Orcs as character races. The four core classes, in my opinion, are Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, Cleric. If we could expand a little bit on those, I would throw in Bard, Druid, Ranger, and Paladin. Six ability scores: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. The core D&D experience is the dungeon crawl, culminating in a final showdown with a dragon. D20s are used for most roles, although other dice are used for damage. Hit Points, saving throws (a simple ability score check is fine), Armor Class, Vancian Casting, and some manner of Multiclassing.
NOW comes the more important question of details. I don't want to return to 1st or 2nd edition multiclassing; I prefer 3rd edition multiclassing, but I realize it had a lot of problems. I don't *love* any of the skill systems in any of the versions of D&D; I prefer 3rd edition skills, but, again, I realize that it has several problems and needs to be reconsidered. I don't want to return to races as classes. I don't want to return to level caps for non-human races. I don't want Vancian Casting as it was done in any of the previous editions. I don't want my character to be fine and then just die at 0 hit points. I don't like 4th edition's jargon and meta-gaminess or 3rd edition's complicated rules. I don't like too many magic weapons, as seen in 3rd and 4th edition. I don't want save vs. death or level drain. I don't want to feel overwhelmed with all the choices I could make, but I still want flexability.
So what do I want? I want a more flexable version of Vancian Casting, which is more akin to Spontaneous casting of 3rd edition. Warlock/4th edition type casting is good too, but not as the central type of magic. I want a hybrid of 4th and 3rd edition multiclassing... although I'm honestly not sure how that would work. I want skills that are easy to use and highly customizable. I want easy character creation - whether it's a 1st level character or a 20th level character. I want feats... I want magic items to be special again. I want the base rules that focus on "theater of the mind" type play, rather than miniatures and battlemats; those can be added on if wanted.
It's a bloody tall order. I have *some* ideas of how 5th edition might be able to pull it off, but there are some problems I can't quite wrap my brain around. Hopefully, the pro's know what they are doing; otherwise, I might just write my own version of D&D.
For the sake of full disclosure, I started role playing with a basic edition box set, went to 2nd edition, really loved 3rd edition, and am currently interested in Pathfinder. While I understand the appeal of 4th edition, it just never appealed to me personally.
My "core" idea of what D&D is includes Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Gnomes, and probably Orcs as character races. The four core classes, in my opinion, are Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, Cleric. If we could expand a little bit on those, I would throw in Bard, Druid, Ranger, and Paladin. Six ability scores: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. The core D&D experience is the dungeon crawl, culminating in a final showdown with a dragon. D20s are used for most roles, although other dice are used for damage. Hit Points, saving throws (a simple ability score check is fine), Armor Class, Vancian Casting, and some manner of Multiclassing.
NOW comes the more important question of details. I don't want to return to 1st or 2nd edition multiclassing; I prefer 3rd edition multiclassing, but I realize it had a lot of problems. I don't *love* any of the skill systems in any of the versions of D&D; I prefer 3rd edition skills, but, again, I realize that it has several problems and needs to be reconsidered. I don't want to return to races as classes. I don't want to return to level caps for non-human races. I don't want Vancian Casting as it was done in any of the previous editions. I don't want my character to be fine and then just die at 0 hit points. I don't like 4th edition's jargon and meta-gaminess or 3rd edition's complicated rules. I don't like too many magic weapons, as seen in 3rd and 4th edition. I don't want save vs. death or level drain. I don't want to feel overwhelmed with all the choices I could make, but I still want flexability.
So what do I want? I want a more flexable version of Vancian Casting, which is more akin to Spontaneous casting of 3rd edition. Warlock/4th edition type casting is good too, but not as the central type of magic. I want a hybrid of 4th and 3rd edition multiclassing... although I'm honestly not sure how that would work. I want skills that are easy to use and highly customizable. I want easy character creation - whether it's a 1st level character or a 20th level character. I want feats... I want magic items to be special again. I want the base rules that focus on "theater of the mind" type play, rather than miniatures and battlemats; those can be added on if wanted.
It's a bloody tall order. I have *some* ideas of how 5th edition might be able to pull it off, but there are some problems I can't quite wrap my brain around. Hopefully, the pro's know what they are doing; otherwise, I might just write my own version of D&D.
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My core ideal for what D&D is or should be, since at one time it was the only kid on the block...
The defining RPG system for the entire Fantasy genre, from Grim & Gritty to High Fantasy and everything in between.
I don't want to have to look at a different game system to run a 'Song of Ice & fire' style game, and another system to run a 'Conan' style game and yet another system to play a 'Black Company' style game and even yet another to play a 'Tolkien' style game. I want to be able to pick up my D&D books and play any type of fantasy I want.
The defining RPG system for the entire Fantasy genre, from Grim & Gritty to High Fantasy and everything in between.
I don't want to have to look at a different game system to run a 'Song of Ice & fire' style game, and another system to run a 'Conan' style game and yet another system to play a 'Black Company' style game and even yet another to play a 'Tolkien' style game. I want to be able to pick up my D&D books and play any type of fantasy I want.
I enjoy D&D, but I didn't grow up on it. Most of my gaming life, I've been playing German fantasy RPGs (Das Schwarze Auge, Arcane Codex). So really, what I want is a Sword & Sorcery RPG that plays like a charm. A lot of the "true D&Disms" that some players are so exciteable about don't matter to me at all. In fact, every time a newer edition tries to enforce some kind of D&D convention (cross-class skills, favored class, rolling ability scores and hp) rather than more generic fantasy, it gets in the way of my game.
That is, I like a lot of the more D&D specific concepts, like drow, paladins, illithids, color-coded dragons, magic missiles, Sigil, tieflings, dragonborn...
But I don't need shout-outs to older editions in the rules. Because, and this will make me a lot of enemies here, Gary Gygax, Dave Arneson and the others were creative and imaginative world builders and game masters, but horrible rules writers. The old editions were great for evoking stories, but a cruddy mess from a pure game design standpoint.
So give me a system like a loom that weaves a all the classic stories that make up D&D and fantasy as a whole, but without the cracks, the holes, the spare parts, restarts and manual adjustments.
That is, I like a lot of the more D&D specific concepts, like drow, paladins, illithids, color-coded dragons, magic missiles, Sigil, tieflings, dragonborn...
But I don't need shout-outs to older editions in the rules. Because, and this will make me a lot of enemies here, Gary Gygax, Dave Arneson and the others were creative and imaginative world builders and game masters, but horrible rules writers. The old editions were great for evoking stories, but a cruddy mess from a pure game design standpoint.
So give me a system like a loom that weaves a all the classic stories that make up D&D and fantasy as a whole, but without the cracks, the holes, the spare parts, restarts and manual adjustments.
LostSoul
Adventurer
I disagree with that! I think they were great games from a pure game design standpoint. I think some of the design was poorly explained or could have been easier to use (e.g. the AD&D 1E initiative tables in the ADDICT .pdf), but I think the game design really holds together.
So far this is showing sort of what I expected. There is no actual sacred D&D cow. Theres a bunch of little semi-holy calfs.
And it doesnt seem to be age dependent either. Starting with older editions doesnt mean you like that better then new stuff and being new to the hobby doesnt make you automatically in love with the new direction.
If this trend continues it will show just how hard it will actually be for the designers to make their ONE EDITION TO RULE THEM ALL.
And it doesnt seem to be age dependent either. Starting with older editions doesnt mean you like that better then new stuff and being new to the hobby doesnt make you automatically in love with the new direction.
If this trend continues it will show just how hard it will actually be for the designers to make their ONE EDITION TO RULE THEM ALL.
Rhenny
Adventurer
I started when I was a young teen over 30 years ago, and at that time, we just liked to use our imaginations. The rules and spells and other official game stuff just helped us fire up our own imagination. I think that is the greatest gift any game system can supply. We didn't care about balance or what could or couldn't be done, we just liked to gather and let the story take us on a collaborative journey.
The same is true today while I run my campaign for 4e.
I think D&D means cooperative story telling with characters that can do interesting things in a fantasy game world. D&D is about giving players and DMs choices. That's why I'm so psyched that 5e is going modular, and WoTC is allowing fans to playtest and give feedback.
D&D is really just a brand name that introduced RPG to the world. It certainly has a number of key elements that all D&D players look on as D&D (to hit roll, AC, hit points, monsters, dungeons, tricks and traps, etc), but mostly it is nostalgia and fond memories of past roleplaying sessions that keep me coming back to D&D (as opposed to other RPGs).
5e needs to build on the idea of giving everyone more options (and so far it seems to be heading in that direction). That will make it D&D for me.
The same is true today while I run my campaign for 4e.
I think D&D means cooperative story telling with characters that can do interesting things in a fantasy game world. D&D is about giving players and DMs choices. That's why I'm so psyched that 5e is going modular, and WoTC is allowing fans to playtest and give feedback.
D&D is really just a brand name that introduced RPG to the world. It certainly has a number of key elements that all D&D players look on as D&D (to hit roll, AC, hit points, monsters, dungeons, tricks and traps, etc), but mostly it is nostalgia and fond memories of past roleplaying sessions that keep me coming back to D&D (as opposed to other RPGs).
5e needs to build on the idea of giving everyone more options (and so far it seems to be heading in that direction). That will make it D&D for me.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Clearly you are not considering your posting content clearly. What parts of "no edition warring" and "no insulting other members" didn't you understand. Try a 3 day ban to think about it
Old D&D editions work in one of three scenarios:
* An experienced DM who can hold it all together despite all the little nooks and crannies
* Everyone is just in for some lighthearted fun
* You're in it for the nostalgia
If you're looking for something that is accessible, quick to learn, fast to play, internally consistent, balanced and flexible to accomodate a broad range of styles... Not so much
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