What's your definition of pulp?

[JPL]

The world needs a needed new breed of hero. Or, to be exact, a very old one. The world needed the crew of the SeaQuest.
- - - - -

I am never going to be the same after reading this post.

To me, it speaks of a potential teamup between Doc Savage and Ensign Darwin the dolphin.

Therein lies the splendor of the Wold Newton Universe.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Pulp has always been visual, the stories, the heros, the villians, etc...were vivid, large, and over the top. Magic, science and such were just backdrop to it.

Pulp had more to do with the paper the stories were printed on but pulp heros also had timing on their side, the stories crossed over to other media, mostly radio and then movies. Pulp mixed action, adventure, and 'visuals' (images/desriptions) it was a lot of different types of stories, such as crime, horror, jungle tails, swashbucking, occult, space...but did not explain how things worked. Pulp went out of fashion after WW2 because of a new term Science Fiction but is now finding its way back because of the 'visuals' it creates and the move away from hard science.

 

[Henry]

Couple that with Black Mask, ...and you should be all set.

In fact, it was the Black Mask site that got me stoked on the ideas of Eberron in the first place - that, and finding out how many ideas were shared with a setting sent in by a friend of mine in the Setting Search. I was half-ready for Eberron before 2004 ever arrived.

 

[madelf]

Madelf, all I can tell you is that I understood pretty quickly what "pulp" and "noir" meant in this context.

You think Indiana Jones is pulp, but you object to using "swashbuckling action" as a synonym for "pulp"? Try googling "Indiana Jones" and "swashbuckling."

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=%22indiana+jones%22+swashbuckling

And you think "The Mummy" is pulp, right? An awful lot of folks seem to use the term "swashbuckling action" in their reviews...

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22the+mummy%22+%22swashbuckling+action%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

I don't object to it. I'm offering up my opinion, answeing the question "What's your definition of pulp". People can view pulp and swashbuckling as the same thing all they want to.
It won't offend me in the least.

It also won't convince me. In my opinion pulp and swashbuckling are simply not synonymous.

 

[madelf]

Bah. Double post.

 

[madelf]

I have to disagree with this - the setting, like any other, is what the DM and players make it. It could be played with a pulp feel, or it could be played as "Forgotten Realms, part two." But it's not so much the mechanics or elements, as how they are portrayed, and the Eberron book does give some good ideas for how this should be done. Forum Member "Express" has done a very entertaining "pulp-noir" take on his group's Eberron story hour (found here); the internal monologue, the dingy detective house, the mysterious client and the hidden secrets - pretty neat, if you ask me.

But then, it could have been done with Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, or Kalamar; it's just that the Eberron material makes it easier to create that atmosphere with its setup.

Oh I agree.
I (and most people) could run a pulp or noir style game using anything as a source. It's just that from the look I took at Eberron, I don't think it supports that style of play any better than any of a hundred other games and less so than many.

I'll check out that story hour link though, sounds interesting.

 

[Henry]

In my opinion pulp and swashbuckling are simply not synonymous.

Maybe not synonymous, but how about "can peacefully co-exist", a la Captain Blood? Captain Blood, the iconic film role of Errol Flynn, started as a pulp hero in a magazine called Adventure in 1921.

 

[Henry]

Oh I agree.
I (and most people) could run a pulp or noir style game using anything as a source. It's just that from the look I took at Eberron, I don't think it supports that style of play any better than any of a hundred other games and less so than many.

I'll tell you what I see that supports the style better than some other genres:

• A recent global war that has changed the political and social climate. What the Great War did for the real world, the Last War does for Khorvaire. Pulp stories and noir film were born from the grittiness and horror that Global War (and later reinforced by the Great Depression) showed the populace, couple with a deep optimism about both the future and the need for new heroes to appear.
• Pulp heroes took dark steps at times to forge brighter outcomes. They knew the darkness of the world, and were not afraid to delve into it in order to conquer it. The restructuring of the role of alignment and religion in Eberron helps to let the same conditions to come about. The Cleric of the Silver Flame who isn't afraid to flame strike a cruel criminal and let him burn to death in the purifying burn of the Silver Flame evokes the same kind of dark bravado that the 1930's Batman used to do to make criminals rat each other out. (Remembers an early issue of Detective Comics where batman is pouring acid on a criminal's lifeline to make him talk)
• Pulp heroes were also characterized by unique qualities that made them above the common man - if nothing more than a willingness to roll up his sleeves and not stand for it. Eberron PC's are definitely characterized by the fact that they can and WILL rise above the other movers and shakers of the world.

The qualities I noted above - the Effects of the War and the Depression and the desire for strong heroes - is a powerful force to the success of the then-new medium of pulp adventure tales. Although I don't want to delve into it too deeply, some critics have said that the recent global recession of several years back coupled with world events was actually responsible for a mini-renaissance of the Pulp Heroic ideals - in this day and age, people want heroes who recognize the realities but still have the power to deal with them in a black-and-white way, just like the heyday of pulp and noir in the 20's and 30's. Read into it however much credence you wish, though - while I can see it, others will not agree. I won't deny that heroic and fantasy movies are currently experiencing a nice little rebirth, though.

I'll check out that story hour link though, sounds interesting.

It held my interest after the first five posts, and for my Attention-deficit little mind, that's saying something.

 

[mmadsen]

It should be noted that while the terms "pulp" and "noir" have been used in describing Eberron, WotC themselves haven't been pitching it as "pulp/noir fantasy."

As I recall, the book's own intro refers to Eberron as fantasy noir. Also, WotC's Gearing Up for Eberron page refers to it as pulp/noir:

After long and deliberate consideration, the final selection was made: Eberron, Keith Baker's cinematic world of pulp/noir action, adventure, and intrigue.

 

[Gez]

My definition of pulp is "soft soggy mass or substance". It applies to wood paste, fruits, inner tooth, muscles, and lots of other things. But not to adventures, unless the scenario is soft and soggy.