What's Your Price Limit?

[MacDhomnuill]

If wanting nice things is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

Not really saying it’s a bad thing. I’m just saying that the extremely high expectations for production value are driving the increase in costs. Second edition runequest cost 11.95 and that included shipping in 1980, in todays dollar thats 47.00. Currently you can buy the POD of 2nd edition for 31.00 including shipping. Its barebones black and white vs the latest basic Runequest core book thats beautiful but costs $63 deliviered. All those pretty bells and whistles add a lot of production cost.

 

[SteveC]

If wanting nice things is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

I'm finding this to be increasingly true. I don't buy a lot of physical books anymore because I have limited space for them. So I'll buy a PDF most of the time. If I'm getting something physical to put in the bookshelf, it should be special. Or something I really treasure. So a book like Wildsea or Break! gets put there. And that's expensive, but it's the direction I think the industry has been moving in for the last several years.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm finding this to be increasingly true. I don't buy a lot of physical books anymore because I have limited space for them. So I'll buy a PDF most of the time. If I'm getting something physical to put in the bookshelf, it should be special. Or something I really treasure. So a book like Wildsea or Break! gets put there. And that's expensive, but it's the direction I think the industry has been moving in for the last several years.

My players like physical reference works at the table (so do I, in fact), so I often buy real books for things meant to used in actual play with others. As a result, I would love it they weren't all so darn spendy. I don't the bulk of the art, or the gloss, or the fancy covers etc al. I need a book I and my players can look stuff up in when we're playing.

 

[SteveC]

My players like physical reference works at the table (so do I, in fact), so I often buy real books for things meant to used in actual play with others. As a result, I would love it they weren't all so darn spendy. I don't the bulk of the art, or the gloss, or the fancy covers etc al. I need a book I and my players can look stuff up in when we're playing.

Oh I definitely get where you're coming from. That's honestly why I have an iPad. I'm going to be playing a bunch of Pathfinder at the upcoming Gamehole Con, and I'll bring printouts of my character, but also have everything, including the rules, on that. I get to play in person only once in a blue moon, so it just isn't an issue where I often need a book to reference in person. Maybe that would change if I was with a group often. Man I miss those days!

So I tremendously sympathize with people who want and need a book or books to play with their group. Until I had a kiddo, that was me. It's also why I enjoyed it back in the day when you had pocket editions of games or low-cost ones in addition. I played 3E with the Mongoose reference books! I would like to hear from people who are playing in person most of the time: do you still use a book, or is it tablet/laptop + PDF?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Oh I definitely get where you're coming from. That's honestly why I have an iPad. I'm going to be playing a bunch of Pathfinder at the upcoming Gamehole Con, and I'll bring printouts of my character, but also have everything, including the rules, on that. I get to play in person only once in a blue moon, so it just isn't an issue where I often need a book to reference in person. Maybe that would change if I was with a group often. Man I miss those days!

So I tremendously sympathize with people who want and need a book or books to play with their group. Until I had a kiddo, that was me. It's also why I enjoyed it back in the day when you had pocket editions of games or low-cost ones in addition. I played 3E with the Mongoose reference books! I would like to hear from people who are playing in person most of the time: do you still use a book, or is it tablet/laptop + PDF?

I use a book when I have one (usually it goes to my players), and my Kindle for me.

 

[1QD]

one the biggest things that I feel is driving at least the perception of excessive prices is how pretty and glossy and full of expensive artwork most modern RPG rule books are. Most of the older game books I still own and use on a regular basis, were printed in black-and-white with scant art, on cheap paper, and staple bound. The expectation of RPG market consumers that every game comes with a deluxe hardcover with seven ribbon bookmarks, high gloss paper and 50% of every page being incredibly evocative art is kind of a self-inflicted gunshot wound for the industry IMHO.

I can see that as a factor in some products, but I do not see that as the main cost. I hand drew my art, designed my cover, and I can say shipping and printing take up the lions share of cost, not to mention my partner takes 40% as well.

 

[General_Tangent]

Hey quick question.... Let's say you bought a book, and then got to play online with the creator and some of his players. Would you find that appealing?

I'm currently doing so

 

[Thomas Shey]

Hence, pdf for me nine times out of ten.

Well, me too far as that goes, but I'll note there are a fair number of people out there who still seem to dislike PDFs, so...

 

[aramis erak]

Out of curiosity, how did you land on that number?
I do something similar, but I measure it against seeing a movie in the theater -- which is about 7$/hour now where I live. So if I buy an RPG (and/or also get the Fantasy grounds file) or buy a video game or whatever, I want to get cost/$7 hours of enjoyable entertainment out of it to make it feel like I did not waste money.

My metric was, until recently, $1 per hour per person... as I got about an hour of enjoyment for $1 in the arcade playing the few games I was good at. Hang-on and Robotron 2084. Mind you, almost half of that time was standing in line, but watching others lose was fun, too. On Hang on with the bike as controller, I usually extended twice. which was thus about 7 minutes of play for a quarter at the time. Robotron was usually level 3, so about 5 minutes of levels, plus half a minute of interlevel animation.

most games I didn't make level 2 in... Defender, Stargate, Star Wars, Star Trek... I kept playing, but spent about $3 per hour of play...

The inflation calculator says about $2.8 current dollars, so that would be about 0:21:00 per $1 which Robotron definitely still would get if I could find a working arcade nearby.

For multi-player, I count each person's time in hours. So... my $85 on Daggerheart is in need of 85 hours total per participant... 6 at 8 hours so far, and 3 at 14 hours so far...48+42= 90 hours, and given the $2.8 per hour... it paid off before last week. Hell, it paid off this week at $1 per person•hour this week

 

[Reynard]

My metric was, until recently, $1 per hour per person... as I got about an hour of enjoyment for $1 in the arcade playing the few games I was good at. Hang-on and Robotron 2084. Mind you, almost half of that time was standing in line, but watching others lose was fun, too. On Hang on with the bike as controller, I usually extended twice. which was thus about 7 minutes of play for a quarter at the time. Robotron was usually level 3, so about 5 minutes of levels, plus half a minute of interlevel animation.

most games I didn't make level 2 in... Defender, Stargate, Star Wars, Star Trek... I kept playing, but spent about $3 per hour of play...

The inflation calculator says about $2.8 current dollars, so that would be about 0:21:00 per $1 which Robotron definitely still would get if I could find a working arcade nearby.

For multi-player, I count each person's time in hours. So... my $85 on Daggerheart is in need of 85 hours total per participant... 6 at 8 hours so far, and 3 at 14 hours so far...48+42= 90 hours, and given the $2.8 per hour... it paid off before last week. Hell, it paid off this week at $1 per person•hour this week

It's interesting: I only calculate my own enjoyment when trying to figure out if it was "worth it." Not that I don't care if my players are having fun, but I am the only one that paid so I am measuring only against my own entertainment.

Foe most TTRPGs, it is super easy to "get my money's worth." A $60 game played 3 times for 3 hours covers it. If I had to buy VTT stuff on top of it, I need a couple more sessions out of it.

Video games are a lot more questionable for me, especially when you factor in hardware costs (I built a PC and bought a PS5). I don't tend to finish a lot of games, and on any given game I usually cap out interest between 10 and 20 hours.