D&D 5E "when circumstances are appropriate for hiding"

[Guest 6801328]

DMs who rule that "if you hide behind a rock the enemies know exactly where you are", does that mean if I have a Shadow Monk I can potentially teleport behind them (assuming presence of shadows) and I can then attempt to sneak up on them because they will be staring at the rock, 100% convinced that I'm still behind it?

Or in a world filled with magic, will observers suspect shenanigans? And thus even if I'm not a Shadow Monk they will never be completely certain I'm still behind the rock. And maybe even give me a chance to slip away from it, if they keep looking over their shoulders, wondering if I'm a Shadow Monk.

Which is it?

 

[transtemporal]

It usually means that you can't be sensed visually or audially.

Hidden means creatures may not be aware of your exact location, not that it's impossible to locate you. Creatures may even know you're there somewhere, they just can't see you, for now...

 

[Jester David]

So just to clarify, in your game the rogue still has to make a stealth check and the enemies get an opposing perception check, true? You are just allowing an attempt​ to hide, yes?

Nitpick: you only get to make an opposed Wisdom (Perception) check if you're taking the Search action on your turn. Otherwise you're limited to your passive Perception.

 

[Harzel]

Nitpick: you only get to make an opposed Wisdom (Perception) check if you're taking the Search action on your turn. Otherwise you're limited to your passive Perception.

Yes, you are correct. My mistake.

 

[Harzel]

Yes, why wouldn't they? I am very confused by the question.

Sorry for the confusion. It was just that you said, "the rogue kinda needs to be able to hide most turns", not "be able to attempt to hide most turns". I probably would not have made anything of it, except for having been reading a different thread in which some were claiming, in a different situation, that a PC would auto-succeed at being imperceptible without even trying to be stealthy. My confusion really, which then became yours...

 

[FrogReaver]

DMs who rule that "if you hide behind a rock the enemies know exactly where you are", does that mean if I have a Shadow Monk I can potentially teleport behind them (assuming presence of shadows) and I can then attempt to sneak up on them because they will be staring at the rock, 100% convinced that I'm still behind it?

Or in a world filled with magic, will observers suspect shenanigans? And thus even if I'm not a Shadow Monk they will never be completely certain I'm still behind the rock. And maybe even give me a chance to slip away from it, if they keep looking over their shoulders, wondering if I'm a Shadow Monk.

Which is it?

Depeneds, probably Not typically. But the first time you try that maneuver I'm goina let it happen cause its just cool. So I'll give you a chance of it playing out exactly how you imagined.

Speaking of. If you can teleport and teleport behind that rock, I'd definitely let you try to hide as they don't know anything about how your teleportation works only that you aren't in any place they expected you to be.

For your second question, I assume a creature can typically watch a location and pay enough attention all the way around it. That seems to be the typical assumption of 5e rules as well because they tell you that a creature in combat is aware of all it's surroundings.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Depeneds, probably Not typically. But the first time you try that maneuver I'm goina let it happen cause its just cool. So I'll give you a chance of it playing out exactly how you imagined.

Speaking of. If you can teleport and teleport behind that rock, I'd definitely let you try to hide as they don't know anything about how your teleportation works only that you aren't in any place they expected you to be.

For your second question, I assume a creature can typically watch a location and pay enough attention all the way around it. That seems to be the typical assumption of 5e rules as well because they tell you that a creature in combat is aware of all it's surroundings.

Let's say your player declares, "From behind my rock I'm watching his shadow, and when I see his head turn to look over his shoulder I'm going to dive and roll behind that other rock." Are you going to rule that's not even possible, are you going to allow a Stealth roll with high DC and/or Disadvantage, or is it a normal Stealth roll?

 

[Oofta]

DMs who rule that "if you hide behind a rock the enemies know exactly where you are", does that mean if I have a Shadow Monk I can potentially teleport behind them (assuming presence of shadows) and I can then attempt to sneak up on them because they will be staring at the rock, 100% convinced that I'm still behind it?

Or in a world filled with magic, will observers suspect shenanigans? And thus even if I'm not a Shadow Monk they will never be completely certain I'm still behind the rock. And maybe even give me a chance to slip away from it, if they keep looking over their shoulders, wondering if I'm a Shadow Monk.

Which is it?

From a rules perspective (given that there are a lot of exceptions to the rule)?

• Attempting to hide is normally an action (I justify this as you are moving carefully and don't have time to take an action). So the monk could teleport behind the enemy, but then can either attempt a stealth check or attack.
• However, the stealth check would automatically fail because the monk has nothing to hide behind. There's no reason to assume that the rock is sufficiently distracting to occupy the enemy's attention.

There is no reason for the enemy to be staring at the rock. They know it's a rock, and they probably have their back to it to ensure that nobody approaches from the rear. Because they have no idea that there are only x number of people in the opposing group and there's no reason for them to assume that there's not somebody lurking in the shadows. That has nothing to do with magic, just basic tactics.

Which is not to say that everyone knows exactly where you are. They assume they know where you are based on the fact that they saw you duck behind a rock and assume that most people don't have teleportation capability (it's fairly rare in my campaign).

Why would it be run any other way?

 

[Guest 6801328]

Why would it be run any other way?

"Rule of Cool"

 

[Oofta]

"Rule of Cool"

I always apply the same rules and logic to monsters as I do to PCs. I don't think it would be cool if in the middle of combat monsters could get advantage on an attack simply by teleporting in.

I reward people for doing cool/awesome/daring things all the time. Using a standard ability to teleport directly into the probable line of sight of an enemy in the middle of combat doesn't clear the bar.

YMMV of course.