When did I stop being WotC's target audience?

[der_kluge]

Like I asked before, what about 4e impedes your role-playing (and, conversely, what was present in previous editions that aided it)?

I've got plenty of role-playing to do --sometimes much to the chagrin of my friends. Would you like to hear about my Gnostic, quixotic Dragonborn paladin who marks foes with his semi-divine semen? Thought not.

For the life of me I can't see how 4e gets in the way of role-playing (which isn't, of course, to say that you're wrong in disliking 4e)

I don't think that 4e detracts from role-playing any more than Monopoly detracts from role-playing. You don't even need a damned book to roleplay anything.

But I do feel like 4e replaces the sense of what it means to be a "character" with a list of abilities and powers. I feel like wizards aren't really any thematically different from clerics, and not all that different from warlords, et al. It's the sameness, and blandness in an effort to balance all the classes that has completely sucked the flavor out of the game for me.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Uhm... I was going to stay out of this at first, but...isn't only talking about the positive of something and consciously choosing to be silent about the negatives... actually presenting a biased view? Just saying. If all I say are positive things about something without stating my negatives...and then admit that I do this, well it is presenting a purposefully biased facade of how I feel about something.

Anyway, I do think that above post was a little... harsh, though everyone is entitled to an opinion.

He's not a journalist, he's a freelance employee. He isn't really obligated to say anything to us in either direction. Just because its contrary to what some people believe or want to be true doesn't indict the statements.

 

[Imaro]

Not by itself, no. If you feel that all the important things are positive, then a completely positive review is not biased, it's honest. Mentioning small negative things just to maintain an appearance of impartiality is silly.

If you really think something is great, why would you say otherwise?

Because you aren't being honest... if some one is looking to you for your opinion in order to inform their own or help them make a choice, you are only being honest if you are upfront with them about both the things you like and those you don't (if there is nothing you dislike then it's another story). Otherwise you are presenting a selective and skewed view of your true feelings.

 

[Imaro]

He's not a journalist, he's a freelance employee. He isn't really obligated to say anything to us in either direction. Just because its contrary to what some people believe or want to be true doesn't indict the statements.

No one said he was a journalist... what is being called in question is whether the opinions he states are skewed or not. What he is or isn't required to say is irrelevant to the question.

EDIT: It's the fact that he says in his post he doesn't comment on the negative, that makes his stated views skewed.

 

[Thasmodious]

I'm enjoying 4e at the moment myself by the way before you get your dander up trying to apply the specific to the general. Ari strikes me (correct me if I'm wrong), as the type of guy that will be positive about the positive things and leave the negative stuff for others to comment about. He seems an enthusiastic and positive kind of guy. At no stage did I say anything about aids, or that enjoying the new edition somehow meant you were unqualified to comment on it. They are your words sir and certainly not mine.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

I didn't mean that post as serious as it came off. I was just struck by the term '4e positive' which sounds like some kind of disease or diagnosis.

 

[El Mahdi]

I have never read any post from Ari where he has stated that 4E is a perfect system with absolutely no negatives. In fact he has stated exactly the opposite. However, he has not been shy about the fact that 4E is currently his favorite and has a lot of good things to say about it. And there is absolutely nothing wrong about that. A feelancers work can be up and down, but I have never read anything by him that was pandering to WoTC. He has always been respectful, informed and non-adversarial. Personally, I think he deserves the same in return.

 

[Fifth Element]

Because you aren't being honest... if some one is looking to you for your opinion in order to inform their own or help them make a choice, you are only being honest if you are upfront with them about both the things you like and those you don't (if there is nothing you dislike then it's another story). Otherwise you are presenting a selective and skewed view of your true feelings.

No, read my post again. I said if everything important is positive for you, then a wholly positive review is unbiased. No review can cover everything. If the 20 things you find most important about the game are all positive, there's no reason to include item 21 just to have something negative to say.

Adding such a negative comment (just to add a negative comment) skews your review, which would otherwise be more positive because you don't find the negative things important).

 

[Psion]

Here's my personal little conspiracy theory that I've been toying with for a long time.

4e is the RPGA edition.

Just as I had feared.

I guess we share a pet.

 

[Imaro]

No, read my post again. I said if everything important is positive for you, then a wholly positive review is unbiased. No review can cover everything. If the 20 things you find most important about the game are all positive, there's no reason to include item 21 just to have something negative to say.

Adding such a negative comment (just to add a negative comment) skews your review, which would otherwise be more positive because you don't find the negative things important).

Uhm...ok, whatever man, you win.

EDIT: Or comment 21 could be you giving a more thorough and thus more honest review...but I'm done with this, I don't feel comfortable using Ari as the subject of this discussion.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I didn't mean that post as serious as it came off. I was just struck by the term '4e positive' which sounds like some kind of disease or diagnosis.

That's cool - and I suppose yeah it does sorta sound that way. I was just expressing that Ari has a positive attitude towards 4e and that no, that does not mean his credibility should be called into question. I think in a strange way, we are actually in agreeance.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise