D&D General When did Kickstarters become a bad deal

[schneeland]

Freight and shipping costs have skyrocketed - so a lot of creators think they need to go with the cheapest shipping option available to not scare away / anger backers. This results in more problems with shipping.

Yeah, if there's one thing that soured the deal on many crowdfundings for me, it's the increased costs of shipping - especially international shipping. When I started backing projects about 10 years ago, it was still perfectly reasonable to back US-based campaigns. These days, either the creators do not ship to Europe right away, or shipping costs are prohibitively high. And even those with EU-friendly shipping easily get into 15-20€ territory, which is not exactly favourable to "impulse backing". And a lot more stuff is hit by customs/taxes these days, too (both because of Brexit and lowered thresholds for import taxes).
I guess this is hitting the creators equally, since they potentially lose a lot of international backers or see them pledge only for digital versions.

 

[Morrus]

I started thinking about this today when my package for Dr. Dhrolin’s arrived empty with a note from the post office apologizing. It wasn’t really the post office’s fault. It was a thin cardboard wrap that was never going to survive international shipping. Shipping I paid between $20 and $30 for. When did Kickstarter become such a bad deal. I know, I know Kickstarter is not a store we are supporting a creative endeavor. But there used to be a lot more value to being a backer. My favorite KS of all time was the KP Demon Cults and Secret Societies. $29 for a softcover but if a certain number of backers was reached it became a hardback. Ended up paying $29 for a hardback and really one of my favorite books. Great deal for sure. Now most KS are more expensive when you back then when they end up in retail. That does not even include the shipping costs which are often very significant. Shipping costs that are not nearly as expensive when the books bought for a retailer. And I think most people have experienced seeing a book they back discounted 30-50% within a year. Just seems creators used to do a much better job incentivizing support in the past. After this latest fiasco ( pictures below) I think my days as a KS backer are over. I have backed dozens of projects but I don’t really think I should pay extra to support the project and assume all the risk.

Every Kickstarter is different. You might as well as “when did shops become a bad deal?” or “when did eBay become a bad deal?”

Kickstarter is just the platform. It doesn’t price the items on it, nor the shipping, nor does it pack the packages. As always check the price is something you’re comfortable with before backing.

 

[Morrus]

I increasingly see backers grill the campaign organizers in comments about shipping to Canada, which appears to have the most ways to get screwed on import duties.

Shipping to Canada is bizarrely expensive. Often we find it’s cheaper to ship from the US to Europe than to Canada. Nothing we can do about international shipping costs though.

 

[Morrus]

I think you are missing the broader point. It is not about KS as a company. There was a time a lot of KS projects found a way to offer value for backers in exchange for backers assuming some of the risk. Now most projects are as expensive or more expensive on KS then they will be in retail. It has not always been that way..

Is that common? I’ve not noticed myself. If a company has a history of selling to non backers for less than they sold to backers, I’d certainly hold off and wait for retail. Of course all things can come down in price eventually, and sales happen, and neither of those things are a problem, but generally speaking the backers should get a preferential window. But that’s just how I feel about it. The biggest sin in my mind is the product appearing in retail before the backers get it.

 

[Velderan]

Is that common? I’ve not noticed myself. If a company has a history of selling to non backers for less than they sold to backers, I’d certainly hold off and wait for retail. Of course all things can come down in price eventually, and sales happen, and neither of those things are a problem, but generally speaking the backers should get a preferential window. But that’s just how I feel about it. The biggest sin in my mind is the product appearing in retail before the backers get it.

I’ve seen 2 scenarios:

1. A product is crowd funded and with the shipping charge, ends up costing more than when it releases to places like FLGS. This can’t really be helped IMO.

2. A product is crowd funded and backers pay let’s say $50 for a hardcover book. The product releases for standard retail after backers get it and sells for $60, so while backers did get a deal, it’s possible down the road to get the $60 book for cheaper than $50 on a holiday 30% off promo. This again IMO can’t really be helped, it’s no different than buying the latest PC game for $70 and way down the road it ends up on a Steam sale for $10. It happens and if that’s an issue, always wait for the sale I guess.

 

[humble minion]

Shipping costs to us here Australia can be brutal, but to be honest, that's true for non-kickstarter purchases too, and the market here is small enough that we don't really have many local game stores that stock small-run products so you're going to be paying the shipping one way or another.

I got into RPG kickstarters fairly late, but even so I'm honestly not sure there was ever really a golden age of value for money, and even if so, whether its apparent end was attributable to anything other than the price increases we've seen in everything over the past few years. RPG books have been probably underpriced for quite a while, especially in the 5e/OGL ecosystem where small publishers can't afford to charge TOO much more than WotC, who have heavy economies of scale and whose output and pricing set the default.

I'd certainly prefer it if a lot of kickstarters maybe forwent the dice bags, stickers, bookmarks, badges, pins, special faux-leather editions, miniatures, soundtracks, slipcases, and myriad other tchotchkes that just serve to add price and unnecessary clutter to the whole business. It seems like a huge waste and almost always adds to fulfillment time - I mean, I backed a project a while back that was delayed for months because of difficulties in the supply chain for the spice mix packs, of all things. But I guess people wouldn't do all this stuff if the economics didn't work out for them.

 

[Morrus]

I'd certainly prefer it if a lot of kickstarters maybe forwent the dice bags, stickers, bookmarks, badges, pins, special faux-leather editions, miniatures, soundtracks, slipcases, and myriad other tchotchkes that just serve to add price and unnecessary clutter to the whole business.

That's how you get the million dollar Kickstarter campaigns!

 

[Thomas Shey]

I haven't actually hit many that have been bad deals, but then, I don't back for physical products.

 

[Morrus]

I guess this is hitting the creators equally, since they potentially lose a lot of international backers or see them pledge only for digital versions.

We don't mind when you pledge for digital.

 

[jerryrice4949]

Printing and shipping cost more now. We cant keep giving away books for pennies because it puts us in debt.

Yeah but now I can back a Kickstarter and pay $60 for it and another $15 in shipping or wait for Miniature Market to get it and pay $40 and $5 for shipping. The issue isn’t that shipping and book costs have gone up it’s that I assume all the risk and pay 30% more (as an example) . A couple years ago projects seemed to do a better job of offering a benefit to backing like the KP example I noted in the first post. Some sort of discount off MSRP etc.