When do baby goblins become evil?

[Hand of Evil]

This is my soapbox, always define evil in your game, this builds tabboos into the system. If I am a DM and I say goblins are evil, period, they are evil. If a PC does not see them as evil, they go against the norm, they become the goblin-lovers.

Now, why are goblins evil? Because they worship evil gods, they perform cold-blooded murder, and they eat the flesh of other defined races.

What is going to happen to a PC for killing a goblin in cold blood? Little or nothing. Why? Because I am the DM and this is my game, goblins are evil, this is my world, goblins are evil, and I am judge, jury, and the gods of the character and I will forgive them.

As many alignment issues you find people apply current morals and thoughts to the game world and you just should not do that, defining evil makes it easier.

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

As the GM, when faced with a nature vs. nurture argument, where are you? If you believe they are just born evil, then there is your answer. If you believe anything can be raised with decency and love, etc., then there is your answer.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I'd go with making the goblins evil by their upbringing. Just because I'd find it funny to make a group of PCs deal with 50 goblin children. Now that's an amusing problem.

I agree with Hand of Evil about this: Evil is definitely something a DM should define for their campaign. For my last one, Orcs and Hobgoblins were born neutral - their upbringing and society normally make them evil. Demons, Devils and Yuan-Ti are created evil and cannot change their ways... I spelled this out while explaining the campaign setting to my PCs. Find it avoids all kinds of potential problems.

 

[shilsen]

Goblin babies at birth are just like human babies - true neutral. Within anywhere from a few minutes to a couple weeks they become (just like human babies) chaotic neutral, acting purely on whim and without capability for moral judgement. After a year or so, they turn chaotic evil (also just like humans), acting on whim but also taking pleasure in mayhem and destruction. And gradually after a few years the CE nature is molded by a mix of individual personality and surrounding culture to end up at the alignment that they'll probably have for the rest of their lives. Simple.

 

[Kathaer]

i think i'll use your parameters in my campaigns! amazing!

 

[diaglo]

only the evil ones survive birth or the first test by the tribal shaman.

kinda like a baptism in fire instead of under fire. those of non evil align or potential are fed to Mugubliet(sp?)

so they are evil but you can redeem them. it will just take a whole lot of out of campaign time. like raising your own kids.

 

[Janx]

Hmm, this gives me thoughts. By the way, I like Eolin's take on it. But here's another.

Fact: alignment is absolute. Meaning Evil is measured from the "good guy's perspective" Thus, orcs may think of themselves as "good" but they are really evil.

Now for my theory:
take a page from the Discover channel. They did a show on Gender. They had an interesting segment on this woman who had the XY gene (i.e. male). Basically, in the womb, she was a he. Turns out, biologically, her body ignored testosterone. So she never actually developed into a he. (this means that being male is a transformation from the female default). All because of Testosterone, and the processing of it before you're even born.

Well, in my research, it turns out there is another horomone in the goblinoid species. I call it "Goblostren" It causes skin coloration, and cranky selfishness. It too takes effect before the infant is born. The result is cranky ugly baby goblins that while incapable of actually doing evil, are, in fact nasty little critters that would rip their mother's nipples off, if they had teeth. Which coincidentally, goblin weening begins the day they start teething, which is at 8 weeks (just like a puppy, but less cute).

Janx

 

[spider_minion]

Some of these arguements lead to ugly consequences . . .

If goblins are evil just because they grew up in an evil society, then the PCs should feel guilty for slaughtering the tribe. The real crime of the goblins was being born in the wrong place, and had they got the chance to grow up among humans, they would have turned out fine. This is made worse because all the goblins the PCs have killed could concievably have been redeemed. If the opposite is also true, that the PCs are good just because their society is good, it kinda undermines their past heroics.

If the goblins are born evil, then again they are not really responisble for their actions. They just were unlucky enough to be born with the evil gene. Of course, now the PCs are obligated to massacre the remaining goblins in their holy genocide.

If free will is the case, then why is it that goblins are usually evil?

I'd recommend ignoring these messy question entirely, or take some compromise solution.

 

[JamesDJarvis]

diaglo had the right take in this.

Evil doesn't think it is good it thinks it is Evil. Only the mad commit acts of evil thinkinng they are good.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I don't think that "totally-freewilled" is the argument deployed, and though I wouldn't level an accusation of you deliberately attacking a straw man, I'm afraid that this is probably what you are currently (inadvertantly) doing.

Ahh, yet another glorious defeat. At least I can flee with my banners unfurled and for that I thank thee.