D&D 5E When PCs Burst into a Room of Unsuspecting Enemies

[ThePaladinWay]

I’d appreciate hearing how other DMs handle these types of situations.

Background: PCs know enemies are in a room. Enemies are unaware of PCs and not even ready for combat (playing cards, cooking, arguing, etc). PCs decide to burst into the room and attack suddenly, like a SEAL team. Not using stealth, so technically no surprise.

Question 1: Do you penalize the enemies on their initiative check (disadvantage), or give the PCs advantage, or neither? If giving advantage or disadvantage, do you roll two d20’s (DM discretion, PHB page 173), or add or subtract 5 (or some other number) to the roll (similar to passive perception checks (PHB page 177)?

Question 2: Would you set the PCs up in the room, or outside?
This will make a huge difference if the enemies win initiative, as either the PCs will be in the room or outside (and thus allowing the enemies to establish a choke point in the doorway). Note that rules state DM decides location before everyone rolls initiative. Also, DM also needs to decide if an enemy is standing right inside the doorway, unknowingly blocking the entrance, which might be a good explanation for why the enemies won initiative and why the PCs are trapped outside of the room - but that is IF the enemies win initiative, and technically we don’t know if they have won yet. Maybe we should roll initiative before deciding where everyone is located?

Question 3: Assume the enemies get the highest initiative roll. Do you allow them to get in the first round of attacks? (Seems counterintuitive, since they are totally unprepared, but one could postulate a situation where it might happen, of course, such as one enemy standing by chance near the door)

Question 4: Would your answers change if the enemies were unaware but more alert and prepared, such as on guard duty?

I lean towards giving the enemies disadvantage when they are unprepared, but I am unsure if this is against the official rules, and/or leads to giving the PCs too much of an advantage. It does help differentiate different levels of enemy awareness and alertness.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I would start humming the Star Trek fight music and play out the battle!

Why no surprise? If the enemies are completely unaware of them and not alerted to danger isn't that the very definition of surprised?

I would grant the PCs a surprise round, but it would have to begin from outside the room unless someone had a way of magically getting inside the room undetected. So from the time the PCs say GO, they have a surprise round. Now if there is a door in the way it will have to be dealt with on the way in. If it is stuck or locked and the PCs fail to get it open as they charge in then the surprise is ruined (thus the popularity of breaching charges & flashbangs by modern teams).

 

[Nebulous]

I’d appreciate hearing how other DMs handle these types of situations.

1) I'd say that bursting in like that is 100% surprise, that's the definition of surprise! Not only that, when the bad guys DO enter initiative they'll have to retrieve weapons, further burning their actions.

2) I don't quite understand this question. You the DM know where all the enemies are inside ahead of time, the PCs don't. They decide themselves to burst in, and if they don't they can't make melee attacks.

3) By definition of surprise, the enemies CAN'T do anything the first round. The next round, if they lose initiative, they'll get wailed on again a second time.

4) A guard, again, by the definition of being a "guard" should get a Passive Perception check or an active perception check to hear or see the PCs preparing for an assault.

 

[Nebulous]

I lean towards giving the enemies disadvantage when they are unprepared, but I am unsure if this is against the official rules, and/or leads to giving the PCs too much of an advantage. It does help differentiate different levels of enemy awareness and alertness.

You're free of course to do whatever you want, but per the rules surprised parties don't have disadvantage, but they do not get a round of actions in response to the threat. As I mentioned above, if they're really, REALLY not prepared, they could have weapons and armor not even within reach, which would further cripple them without having to add a mechanical "disadvantage". Not having a weapon in hand is already a huge disadvantage. Getting stabbed before you can even move is another disadvantage.

 

[wedgeski]

Surprise and ambush are the kinds of things where sometimes you have to shuffle the rules a little bit out of the way.

This is definitely a surprise round, as long as the people in the room are unaware if them. If the PC's haven't been quiet and/or careful in their approach or in their planning, the guys in the room might be aware of them and have set up an ambush of their own. At the minimum, if they're aware of the PC's, everyone just rolls initiative as soon as foot hits door.

Assuming the guys in the room are not aware of the PC's, and as long as the PC's are at liberty to discuss their actions beforehand, they should be granted an entire round of actions before the enemies even roll their initiative dice. One of those actions must include (for one PC) smashing the door open. I would allow the PC's to act in any order they wanted (no need to roll initiative until after the surprise round).

Don't worry about Advantage or Disadvantage. Having a free round of actions is a stratospheric advantage in itself (and might well decide the fight before it even gets going).

 

[Hriston]

I begin an encounter when one of the two parties becomes aware of the other, so round one would begin with the PC party outside the door and if the NPCs are unaware of them then they would be surprised for that round while the PCs rush in and attack. If the PCs did not use stealth when they were listening at the door, however, then I would assume that they had made some noise and that the NPCs would be aware of their presence and not be surprised. If the PCs did use stealth, then I'd probably have them make their check with advantage due to being behind a closed door and because of the noise in the room. In fact, given the scenario, I'd ask them to make stealth checks with advantage and compare that with the NPCs passive perception whether the PCs said they were trying to be stealthy or not. It just doesn't seem likely that anyone would walk up to a door that they think enemies might be behind without at least trying to be stealthy.

 

[Nebulous]

Don't worry about Advantage or Disadvantage. Having a free round of actions is a stratospheric advantage in itself (and might well decide the fight before it even gets going).

Surprise + winning Initiative often = Battle over. I'm trying to think of how many times that has happened to the PCs in my group. Not ever in 5e, but it if did, they'd most likely be dead, especially if the enemies were sufficient to attack each one or double up. Ambush tactics work devilishly well for a very good reason.

 

[Paraxis]

"If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other." - pg 185 PHB

So no stealth rolls = no surprise.

Picking up weapons is interacting with an object so the monsters in the room on their initiative just stand up grab weapons, move up and attack. No reduction in action economy for the most part.

Don't forget there is no "delay" action , and the "ready" action can't be taken before initiative is rolled.

Some of my players try and do the following, rogue stealths up to door, investigates the door and listens to see if enemies might wait on the other side, then the rogue and the ranged characters want to "ready" an attack against any potential enemies that might appear when the door is opened. That doesn't work. This is a potential surprise round and that is it.

 

[Will Doyle]

Bursting in like a SEAL team suggests to me they did stealth up beforehand to the door (or windows, or whatever). Basically, if the other party is completely unaware of the threat until the very last second - for whatever reason - I'd totally grant surprise. I think the rules should be malleable here. For example, if I suddenly attacked an unsuspecting passerby in a busy street scene, I'd be expecting surprise (even though I didn't pantomime sneak up behind them).

Regarding positioning in a surprise round, I generally let players set themselves up in a loose zone, and then proceed in initiative order. For rooms this zone would be just inside and outside of the door.

 

[Ristamar]

"If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other." - pg 185 PHB

So no stealth rolls = no surprise.

The PCs used enough stealth to reach the door without being noticed, even if it was inadvertent. The group on the other side is unaware and unprepared. If the DM hand waved any potential rolls for stealth, that is of no fault of the players.