D&D General When Players Refuse to learn The Rules

[tommybahama]

Sure, but after 6 or 10 weeks?

I'm still doing it occasionally after almost 2 years. Same for the rest of the people I play with. Like I said, bad design.

You're immersed in the RP and suddenly the DM calls for a roll. So you scramble to find the right link. It happens. At least the VTT does all the math for you so you gain any time that's lost.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I'm too prone to running games that actually require you to have some understanding of how the damn game works to be effective at all for that to be too workable, but I've had people in the past who leaned in that direction. They either got frustrated and left, of became really passive and usually just rode out a campaign that way; I ended up not inviting them to the next one.

(To be clear, I'm mostly talking about games other than D&D here, but even so, the idea of one of these players trying to manage a spellcaster in any D&D incarnation or variation I'm experienced with is pretty much horrifying. I'll help where I can, but if I'm still having to do major hand-holding three sessions in, well...)

 

[Stormonu]

I had to actually have a talk with my wife about this sort of behavior after our last VTT session about a week ago. She has a learning disability, but her inability/non-desire to work with the VTT we are using (after I’ve sunk at least a hundred $$$ into it and Beyond) finally exhausted my patience. She’s tolerable in a face-to-face game, but her Luddite attitude towards doing things on the computer has reached the breaking point. She HAS to have a paper sheet and book in front of her, and refuses to use the VTT’s built in library (or online Beyond) to look up/activate abilities.

When the current on-line campaign ends, I’m not inviting her to the next online game because of the frustration, wife or not. I’m running the game to have fun, not pull my hair out.

 

[R_J_K75]

This is just a bit of a rant.

It absolutely kills me when players can't be bothered to learn even the basics of their characters, the game rules or (in this case) the VTT. And I don't mean new players that haven't engaged in RPG before. I mean players with decades of experience in general and at least a dozen sessions in this game alone. First of all, it slows the game to crawl when they can't figure out what button to click to roll to hit, or how to target enemy tokens and that sort of thing. More than that, though, watching them make suboptimal choices and then get frustrated with the outcome because they didn't know (just by way of example) that their rogue could use Cunning Action.

I know that for some, playing in a regular game is more about being able to hang out with friends, but come one -- at least learn the basics of your character and the VTT software.

Related: if you don't know the game and don't want to learn the game or even read your spells before you try and cast them, save us all the frustration and play a Champion Fighter instead, huh?

I feel your pain and agree. Players should learn their characters and abilities, where to find things on their sheet, keep track of equipment and have at least a fundamental knowledge of the rules in the PHB that pertains not only to their character but some general rules of the game. Its just common courtesy to the DM and other players.

I had this problem about 2-3 months ago. I updated my core books to the current printings so I gave two of my players my extra old PHBs. I told them "look we've been playing together for over 2 years, and you still cant find things on your character sheet or know your PC's, if you cant be bothered as a player, I'm not going to bother to put much effort in as a DM". Two players that never contributed much to the game dropped out and the other 2 players I gave the PHB to have really steeped their game up and everyone is making an effort to learn their PC and the rules. Letting your players know you're aggravated goes a long way.

I know you shouldn't have to but I've found sometimes players digest things better in smaller doses. Perhaps writing a one to two page tutorial on the key features of the VTT that they can print and reference during the game might help. I wrote out a short step-by-step PC creation cheat sheet and that helped greatly. Regardless its a frustrating situation.

 

[R_J_K75]

Oh yes....
I had one such player who justified it by "its your job as GM to translate what I do into rules".

Its called, "Sorry, you're dead, you just took massive damage and there's nothing left to resurrect. How's that for my translating the rules"?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

If I get a pick between a player that loves to role play and enjoy the story and has no understanding of the rules of the game or VTT software, or a player that knows every rule and trick in the software but treats the game as a MMORPG with no care to the story, and not a whit of personality to their character ... I'm take the first every time.

Couldn't agree more.

And what I've seen, from 30 years of D&D with the same people, is that system and presentation have a hugely more impact that I think people would ever, ever credit, for some players. Good quality digital character sheets which people can easily access at will are huge - the 4E DDI had this, as does 5E's DNDBeyond, but Roll20's ones are utterly terrible. Anyway the amount of knowledge of people's own characters/abilities I saw absolutely rocket up once we started using digital sheets people could access out-of-session.

 

[DemoMonkey]

Being in three different campaigns using three different software and screen setups, my sympathies here are with the players.

 

[Li Shenron]

Can't say about VTT as I only ever used one and it was super simple.

Also the core 5e rules aren't that difficult to learn for players.

However I would defend players of spellcasters who have troubles, particularly in games with fast advancement. You can't expect people to remember spells details by memory. Therefore the problem is not about knowing your spells but about having quick access to them, and the PHB is NOT a good enough gaming aid at the table, and neither are character sheets!

I print out DIY cards for every spell and non-trivial character ability that my PCs have, so that each player can have all they need in front of them. I also color-code them based on what action or time is required, so they immediately know when they can use them.

 

[aco175]

On one hand, I have never played VTT and have no idea. I would also like to think I could figure it out and learn after a few weeks of play. On the other hand, my father would never get it and likely would not play if he had this only option.

I remember some of the earlier editions and all the modifiers and having a few players needing to add each of them each round. "Ah, 1d8 weapon, +3 strength for 7. Oh, and 2 from Bull Strength for 9, and 1 from a magic weapon"... Gave one of them a small dry erase sheet to write all the mods on to get a total and just write 1d8+6 on it.

 

[Reynard]

Can't say about VTT as I only ever used one and it was super simple.

Also the core 5e rules aren't that difficult to learn for players.

However I would defend players of spellcasters who have troubles, particularly in games with fast advancement. You can't expect people to remember spells details by memory. Therefore the problem is not about knowing your spells but about having quick access to them, and the PHB is NOT a good enough gaming aid at the table, and neither are character sheets!

I print out DIY cards for every spell and non-trivial character ability that my PCs have, so that each player can have all they need in front of them. I also color-code them based on what action or time is required, so they immediately know when they can use them.

Yes. Being a player can take some effort. Kudos for putting the effort in. What I am irked by is players that can't be bothered. To them it is a passive consumption entertainment like TV or "casual" video game. I think that's disrespectful to the GM and other players who do put in the effort.