When status effects annoy the players

[Morrus]

I'm findind an issue whereby status effects appear to be fun-removing effects for the players.

Stunned
Slowed
Restrained
Prone
Petrified
Marked
Immobilized
Blinded
Dazed
Deafened
Dominated
Helpless
Restrained
Slowed
Stunned
Weakened
Unconscious

So that's the list of 4E status effects. Most bad guys inflict status effects along with damage. But the majority of them really piss off the players - to the point where they're not having fun any more. A lot of them are almost "miss a turn" statuses (often more than a turn), or "do nothing fun" statuses; and the players in question get really agitated by the situation. Even those which aren't actually "miss a turn" (like stunned, petrified, unconscious) can often mean "your turn is irrelevant" (like slowed if you're 5 squares away, blinded, etc.) And it's even worse if you have more than one status on you.

Do you have this problem? If so, what do you do about it? Do you simply not use the statuses?

 

[ggroy]

The players in my previous 4E game were not overly annoyed by the status effects, per se. They were more annoyed at having to keep track of them, and remembering to do saving throw rolls at the end of their turns.

They had the same annoyances with keeping track of things like marks, hunter's quarry, etc ...

It felt more like being an accountant at times, than a player.

 

[SiderisAnon]

While I know that there has been an attempt to move toward it, I don't think a player has to have something useful to do every single round as long as combat is moving along decently fast. I expect characters to loose a certain number of actions to things like moving into position, reloading weapons, recovering from something the bad guy has done, or trying to aid another person. I expect this is pretty much any game system.

Now, if it's making your players upset that they don't have something completely awesome to do every time their action comes up, then that's something you need to work out with them. Take a look at how many actions they're really losing. If every fight they are losing half of their actions, then either the monsters have too many special abilities or the PCs aren't doing enough to counter those abilities. If it's more like they lose one action in four and not in every fight, then I'd say it's perfectly normal.

In all honesty, if most of my players complained about this, I'd ask them if they simply wanted me to declare the monsters dead and we can skip combat completely? I also respond poorly to player whining, as do most of the people I know who DM/GM.

 

[Obryn]

I think it depends on your group. Especially on the group's leaders, IMO.

4e characters can cope with every status effect except for Stun or Dominate with some smart tactics. (Even against those, a well-prepared Leader might have some countermeasures.)

If it's harming play, I'd suggest giving all PCs and Monsters a save at the start of their turns which can even be used against End Of Next Turn effects.

-O

 

[fba827]

Personally, I find stun to be something to avoid. It is, by defintion, when you get to do -nothing-. When I DM and I see it in a monster stat block, I usually replace it (usually with daze and give it a penalty to the save or something along those lines if it's save ends). but i kept it in for one monster in the past for a certain reason.

Petrified is another one like stun, but it hasn't come up yet so i haven't given any thought what to do about that.

unconcious sort of falls in to the same category BUT unconcious isn't really a condition that enemies inflict as a secondary effect on a hit, but rather its usually the result of hp dwindling that players can monitor and react to over the course of several rounds.

all the other ones don't really deny actions. they can get a little frustrating if you are set on doing some particular course of action, but when all is said and done, you can still do something, just have to be ready to change your tactics accordingly and work with what you can do. in my mind, they add some of the variety that makes you get a bit creative with your tactical choices.

but, yes, they can get frustrating if you really had something else in mind, but i (personally) don't take it as "this sucks, i can't do anything i planned, i hate this' if i'm a melee type person and i get slowed a couple times, it'll get me to invest in a back-up ranged weapon to throw for next time. it might not be as effective as my main attacks, but there is something cinematic about "your legs are entagled in the vines and you can't move to reach the enmy with your sword, so you grab your javelin and throw it in desparation, hitting the beast from afar as you try to free yourself" (even more so if that happens to be the killing blow or the blow that bloodies it, or even crits).

now if you're talking about -tracking- conditions, yes, that gets frustrating in any condition situation, especially with multiple conditions and the variety of ending timeframes.

 

[2020]

Do you have this problem? If so, what do you do about it? Do you simply not use the statuses?

Tell them to suck it up.

Seriously.

They're complaining that their PC's are affected by monster attacks. Poor diddums. What do they expect? Their characters to be invulnerable super-heroes?

If they're so bothered by it, then maybe they should devote some feats or powers towards ending status effects. There are plenty of them.

In fact, in one group I played in, my cleric was so good at removing status effects in combination with a warden and paladin, that the DM was getting annoyed that his monster's status effects never lasted more than half a turn.

 

[Oryan77]

I don't hear my players complain about status effects. I guess I don't have effects happen all that often where they lose turns on a regular basis. Then again, it seems like when I do have the chance to use a status effect, the players always make the saving throw anyway

But I don't give in to player whining anyway (like a previous poster said). Whining about things like this just annoys me. I'd just tell them that maybe D&D isn't the right kind of game for them if this type of situation bugs them enough to whine about. I can understand grumbling when it happens, cause nobody likes to get screwed. But to get to the point to complain about it is kinda lame. It's part of being an adventurer.

I mean, as a player, I can enjoy myself just fine watching what every one else is doing in the meantime. I can sit on the sidelines for several rounds if I have too, and root for the guys to save the day. And if I do happen to get bored (which I doubt I would), I'd just ask the DM if I could help him out by controlling an NPC.

I never understood why people can't just be easy going and enjoy themselves regardless. I would never make a DM feel like he has to cater to me like I'm some prissy princess. I'm a man dagnabit!

 

[roguerouge]

Generally, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If your players don't like being on the receiving end of some of these effects, then ban them for everyone. The players who planned on not being direct damage only PCs should then speak up.

 

[Rechan]

As an above poster said, I typically avoid Stun. I find it rude. However, I love dazed.

Personally I think anyone that gets annoyed by Slowed needs to just suck it up. Slowed isn't that limiting; if your character depends on movement, then he likely has a bucket full of powers that grant movement/shifting abilities. Same with Immobilization; it doesn't limit you that much. Same with Prone.

Honestly, if you took out all the "annoying" conditions, the controller class would cease to be. And the game would revolve even MORE about doing raw HP damage, and annoy EVEN MORE the people who want to play characters that don't do do any damage and instead want to buff/debuff!

And for the most part, conditions are the only defenses monsters have to stop from being creamed. They limit PCs ability to drop the hammer every round, thus allowing the monster to get a shot off once or twice. But more importantly, some of those conditions means the PC has to make hard choices. Dazed is a good example: Move and set up CA or get to the enemy, charge, or use some other power?

Generally, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If your players don't like being on the receiving end of some of these effects, then ban them for everyone. The players who planned on not being direct damage only PCs should then speak up.

Pretty sure the same annoyed players would not like not being able to put the bucket over the Solo monster's head and kick it's ass with multiple stun/daze/immobilize/always prone/etc.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It's sort of a "what do you expect?" kind of thing.

Monsters do things to inconvenience players. Without statuses, we're basically down to raw damage, which doesn't add much tactical variety to combat.

BUT, that said, since your players are genuinely annoyed and not having fun, there's ways around it.

Some ideas:

1. Pay Attention to the Leaders: Your party's leaders do more than heal. They do things to counteract status problems. Things like free movement, teleports, bonus actions, saves, etc., etc. Other characters with a "leader minor" can do a lot of this stuff, too.
2. Who's Got the Heal Skill?: DC 15 grants a saving throw to another character (or gives a +2 to a saving throw that the other character would make anyway). It's a standard action, but it really helps ditch those effects early.
3. Feats!: Something to keep in mind while leveling up: whatever your annoying condition du jour is, there's probably a feat that lets you get out of it easily. For Slowed, for instance, there's the Martial Freedom feat, and the Thief Expert feat. These can be a bit niche, but that's sort of what feats are for, and if it means getting out of a status effect early, it's probably worth it.
4. Spread It Around: More of a DM thing than a player thing: don't spam one character, or one kind of status. Keep it spread out. Not everything in a single combat should slow characters, ideally, and not with every attack. This can lead to "status accounting," but that's a little less frustrating than NEVER MOVING MORE THAN TWO SQUARES ARGH. Usually.
5. Keep the Terrain In Mind: Another DM thing: don't stack effects, if you can avoid it. If you've got an enemy that imposes slow, try to avoid having difficult terrain or looooooong corridors in the same combat. It can be effective, once or twice, but if your players are unduly frustrated by it, it's probably not worth it.
6. Other Stuff Grants Saves (House Rule): To keep giving characters saving throws, let Action Points give them a free save instead of an extra action, or let them make a save instead of recovering HP (or getting the defense bonus) while taking a Second Wind.

I wouldn't recommend getting rid of the statuses entirely, since 4e leans pretty hard on them to do the job of making combats interesting. But keep the above in mind, pay attention to the monsters you choose (go with Brutes, Lurkers, and Artillery rather than Soldiers and Controllers), maybe sprinkle in terrain effects that can grant saves (magic circles, healing pools, whatever), and try to maybe explain that there are ways around this/to stop this, and why the monsters still have to sort of be able to do that.

Good gaming!