When status effects annoy the players

[broghammerj]

Although I don't play any 4E the same problem reminds me of when a Rakshasa held a 9th level fighter for 18 rounds in a 2E game. Not too fun for the player until I gave him the powerful minion and said do your worst.

Not to get edition warsy, but that was part of my personal problem with 4E. Everyone always had some status/condition/marker/etc which had to be tracked every round.

My advice is to limit the most pesky ones and just make sure that it is a two way street so the PCs can't cause them on the opponents.

 

[Rechan]

1. Pay Attention to the Leaders: Your party's leaders do more than heal. They do things to counteract status problems. Things like free movement, teleports, bonus actions, saves, etc., etc. Other characters with a "leader minor" can do a lot of this stuff, too.

Also depends on the leader. Bards are good about granting movement, Warlords can do good things with regards to saves, and Paladins (particularly the Build in Divine Power) can seriously put a dent in conditions.

To add to Kamikaze's list:

Magic Items. There are a ton of magical items that help with specific conditions. Several magical boots address movement conditions for instance.

Race. Kalasthar and Gith get definite bonuses to beat the pants off any mental status conditions.

Effect Based Actions. Depending on what is Causing the effect, the DM might allow certain actions to help. As a DM, if a player jumped into a lake while having the Ongoign 5 Fire condition, I'd say the effect had ended. By the same token, If the PC is Restrained because he's caught in a bear trap or a snare, then let him use an action to try and get out. If the PC is Dazed or Dominated by some sort of mental effect, maybe a PC could use Intimdiate or Diplomacy (at a higher DC) to get the individual to "Snap out of it", using similar rules as the Heal skill.

 

[Rechan]

Doublepost.

 

[cdrcjsn]

Yeah, pretty much what most people have said.

PCs have such tremendous resources available to overcome these status effects that if it really bothers them, they can easily devote some items, feats or powers to overcome them

With that said, I've found that at paragon and epic levels, leaders who are able to remove or mitigate status effects are more useful than ones who simply heal.

The flipside to all of this is that PCs regularly use these same powers on monsters. I've encountered some DMs that get annoyed when these powers are used a lot (when I was playtesting, my DM got really pissed off at my Bloodmage Wizard and her ability to stun, daze, or blind foes to the point where he made a request that I lay easy on using those powers).

 

[Morrus]

I agree with the suggestion that one not spam a single player with everything. However, that becomes tricky when certain sticky and marking powers come into play. When the monsters aren't really given the choice by a defender as to who they attack, it makes it hard to avoid.

I'm definitely more invested in "players having a fun evening" than "rules is rules". Recently I've been simply missing off effects to avoid annoying them; but this resulted in an insanely easy "boss fight".

Perhaps the answer is to just replace statuses with more damage.

 

[Rechan]

I agree with the suggestion that one not spam a single player with everything. However, that becomes tricky when certain sticky and marking powers come into play. When the monsters aren't really given the choice by a defender as to who they attack, it makes it hard to avoid.

1) If the monster keeps hitting the defender with the bad attack because it's marked, then the defender is doing his job. His job is to eat hits so his teammates don't.

2) The monster Can Always Choose To Not Attack the Defender. Eat the -2. Especially if it either 1) makes sense for the monster or 2) makes some level of tactical sense ("Oh no, that rogue is getting close to our artillery!). Monsters have buckets of HP; let them eat some punishment. It'll make the fight go faster.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm definitely more invested in "players having a fun evening" than "rules is rules". Recently I've been simply missing off effects to avoid annoying them; but this resulted in an insanely easy "boss fight".

Perhaps the answer is to just replace statuses with more damage.

I see we share some priorities for our games.

If you go the raw damage route, DMG Page 42 may be your friend. Just replace the status effect with whatever "limited" expression you need (at-wills, recharge powers, and encounter powers for monsters).

But you've seen some of the other side of this: insanely easy fights. Swingy combat. Could get a bit dull (monsters will do the same thing).

But maybe not.

I'd try granting them 1,001 ways of getting rid of the statuses first, myself, but just going damage might be easier. If you find your fights getting to be HP accounting, without much variety, maybe introduce statuses slowly, one at a time.

 

[Morrus]

2) The monster Can Always Choose To Not Attack the Defender. Eat the -2. Especially if it either 1) makes sense for the monster or 2) makes some level of tactical sense ("Oh no, that rogue is getting close to our artillery!). Monsters have buckets of HP; let them eat some punishment. It'll make the fight go faster.

Well, it's not just -2. If it was, it'd be a no-brainer. But it usually amounts to -3 to -5, plus large amounts if auto damage for not attacking the defender. Combine that with practically every figure on the map being marked, sanctioned, etc. in this way, you can see how the defender ends up with a lot of the status effects.

 

[Rechan]

But it usually amounts to -3 to -5

How are they pulling that off?

you can see how the defender ends up with a lot of the status effects.

Like I said before. If the player doesn't want to get hammered with the status effects, then he shouldn't mark the monster, or he shouldn't be a defender. An immobilized and dazed paladin is still nuking the hell out of that guy that is under his Sanction.

Also bare in mind that the defender isn't omnipowerful. He only gets one interrupt per round, so if two monsters break his mark, then one of them is going to get the attack off without being attacked. And a Dazed character gets no interrupts. Now a paladin is a different animal, but the monster is only taking damage the first time it attacks someone else.

 

[S'mon]

As a player I find them annoying, esp Daze which is common even at low level. The worst thing is the opponent with Reach 2 and Daze; hits my Fighter from 2 squares away and I can't even attack him! Although I can charge someone else 5 squares away. :\

As a GM I tend to avoid using them, eliminate or reduce them and increase monster damage instead. Used in great moderation they can add spice, though.