D&D General When Was it Decided Fighters Should Suck at Everything but Combat?

[Bill Zebub]

Isn't that what backgrounds and feats are for? The class skills might represent skills that complement the class and the background can grant you those intelligence skills or the background feat can let you pick up skilled for extra skills. Even in 2014 the fighter gets a bonus feat at level 6 which can be used to customise the class but everyone seems to end up only picking up combat skills instead of a feat that makes them a little more well rounded. At some point I think it is less the class and more the player that is pigeonholing the fighter.

I think that's a killer point.

Want a fighter that's good at stuff other that combat? Look at all those juicy feats.

But remember that you won't be as good at combat as you could have been. No, you can't have it both ways.

/thread

 

[billd91]

But remember that you won't be as good at combat as you could have been. No, you can't have it both ways.

And that's appropriate. Choices choices choices... and their consequences.

 

[Tesral]

And that's appropriate. Choices choices choices... and their consequences.

But let there be choices. 3e as written removes them, AD&D doesn't have them to start with. Other editions vary to be sure. There is no reason the fighter must be Sir Feudalmind.

 

[TheSword]

Much has been said earlier about the Fighter's amazing ability to use Second Wind to be good at ability checks- it's a nice clutch ability, but it's not one without cost! Not only do you only have one use for a long time, it's not like the game is going to always let you take an hour long nap between skill checks! Further, when (not if) combat breaks out, that surgeless healing is quite useful (I've been playing Tales of the Valiant which got rid of Second Wind, and suddenly I've noticed how useful it really was!), granting some measure of additional resistance to harm.

I think you may have missed the details here.

You have two uses of this at level 1, three uses from level 4 and you get back one after each short rest.

You don’t need to sleep to take a short rest. It’s a lunch break. Second Wind is useful but a lot of skill checks take place outside of the dungeon where multiple combats are likely to happen.

It also kicks in on failed checks so you can be merrily making skill checks and only use this when you really need it. Rather than always-on abilities that probably aren’t needed all the time.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

What abilities should Fighters to not suck outside of combat as much?

I think two strength that could come into play for a potential fighter:

Leadership (outside of combat role). The fighter as the party leader seems to be a common trope, but at least since 3E, no Fighter really was good at that, 4E basically spun off an entire class around that, the Warlord (which is one of the reasons I enjoyed the class so much.), but this is not so much about the combat stuff and more about the story role.
This could mean skills like Diplomacy, Initimidate and Insight. Maybe abilities related to inspiring people to work harder in non-combat situations.

Craftsmanship & Engineering: Not just limited to maintaining or crafting weapons and armor, but to a general eduction on how to craft and build things or how buildings are constructed and designed. This could relate to something like Dungeoneering and Crafting.

Education: Sure, the Wizard is the smart-ass, but a Fighter might also have a strong background of nobility or otherwise entered an officer career. This might cover things like history, nobility and royality, and law. Some overlap with leadership perhaps specifically ot knowledge about warfare and historical battles?

Watchmen/Guard: This could relate very specifically to actual guard duty during campaign, but could also extent into something like Investigation.

Athlete: I mention it, but I think every Fighter needs to have this covered by default to some extent. Their profession just requires high physical excellence.

At the basis, each of these could be simly 1-3 additional proficiencies or maybe even the chance for an expertise, but it might also have something more unique than that, a kind of mini-capstone ability.
If you feel it too much just adding this to the class, it could replace their bonus feats It could be special "Fighter" feats that grant extra benefits?

 

[Micah Sweet]

What abilities should Fighters to not suck outside of combat as much?

I think two strength that could come into play for a potential fighter:

Leadership (outside of combat role). The fighter as the party leader seems to be a common trope, but at least since 3E, no Fighter really was good at that, 4E basically spun off an entire class around that, the Warlord (which is one of the reasons I enjoyed the class so much.), but this is not so much about the combat stuff and more about the story role.
This could mean skills like Diplomacy, Initimidate and Insight. Maybe abilities related to inspiring people to work harder in non-combat situations.

Craftsmanship & Engineering: Not just limited to maintaining or crafting weapons and armor, but to a general eduction on how to craft and build things or how buildings are constructed and designed. This could relate to something like Dungeoneering and Crafting.

Education: Sure, the Wizard is the smart-ass, but a Fighter might also have a strong background of nobility or otherwise entered an officer career. This might cover things like history, nobility and royality, and law. Some overlap with leadership perhaps specifically ot knowledge about warfare and historical battles?

Watchmen/Guard: This could relate very specifically to actual guard duty during campaign, but could also extent into something like Investigation.

Athlete: I mention it, but I think every Fighter needs to have this covered by default to some extent. Their profession just requires high physical excellence.

At the basis, each of these could be simly 1-3 additional proficiencies or maybe even the chance for an expertise, but it might also have something more unique than that, a kind of mini-capstone ability.
If you feel it too much just adding this to the class, it could replace their bonus feats It could be special "Fighter" feats that grant extra benefits?

All three of these (and more) are part of the fighter class in Level Up. I would seriously look there for options, even if you just use it to inspire your homebrew in a WorC 5e. The one thing you shouldn't do is wait for WotC to fix it.