When you want to strangle a player

[Oryan77]

He is just unhappy because he invisioned going up using diplomacy winning both clerics over and they all parting friends after hugs all around.

I'm sure everyone else envisions slaying Tiamat in one round as lvl 3 PCs...but if it doesn't happen they suck it up (and then roll up new PCs )

It really doesn't sound like he should be playing D&D in the mental condition he's in right now. He should just load up an xbox and play some single player game. I can understand being bummed that you didn't perform as heroic as you would have liked, but to actually express that out loud and complain about it to purposely degrade the DM is completely out of line.

You guys should explain that to him and just simply ask him to deal with it and ease up on you.

 

[haakon1]

When he said he wanted to do this I looked at it two ways.

You go into a biker bar and two bikers are about to fight you are not a biker you are dressed in three piece armani suit and you step up and try to convince these complete strangers who very angry not to fight. Think how hard that would be to do. Interfering in a highly charged situation like this when you are a not only a stranger but not a part of the "group" is going to more diffcult than say if the person was stranger but also a biker.

The cleric of St Cuthbert was to put in modern terms a highly ranked police officer. Again using real life as my inspiration can you imagine if in real life you went up to a cop investigating a mass murder who was arguing say with member of the national guard and you are not any kind of officical you are basically a bystander and trying to get them to stop fighting.

It is not going to be easy hence the modifiers. I thought he had a good chance to handle this situation he has a +11 to any roll he makes. I waited until the cleric had left to have this fight break out so that the other characters would have a chance to do something. I had a feeling the bard's player would want to try something.

I wanted to give him a chance to do something.

And he did he stopped the fight he did succeed in his course of action just not the way he wanted to.

Maybe I am wrong to look at it this way but dice rolls play a part in situation outcomes.

At least he picked up on an important question and plot hook for his character why was this cleric of St Cuthbert so hostile to his character instead of just unfriendly.

Would it be easy for a civilian to get in between the chief of police and the FBI bureau chief to sort out a dispute? No. But could an amazingly skilled "face" character like Face in "The A-Team" or Lando Calrissian do it? Sure they could, with a decent roll and a decent idea from the player on what tack to use in convincing them.

Once when I was living in the UK, I had a friend who was in the British equivalent of the National Guard (the Ulster Defence Regiment of the Territorial Army) and had some military police training convince another friend who was quite drunk, a mean drunk, and a US Marine to not punch a random guy he thought had insulted the US and helped the VC in Vietnam (he hadn't, but another drunk guy had convinced him of it for "fun"). I'm not sure what the modifiers are in such a situation: +2 for my Aid Another in holding the Marine back, a +2 for being friends with the drunk, a +2 for being a veteran of an allied force, a -2 for not being in uniform, a -2 for having an accent, a -2 for being a Northern Irish Protestant interacting with an Irish-American, a -2 for the Marine being quite drunk, and a -2 for the Marine being a notorious mean drunk? Heck, you could modify all day, but it seems like just rolling the dice (and adding in the Aid Another) is easier and simpler for everybody to understand. And the bottomline is, even non-cinematic folks, with proper training (skills points) and luck (a good roll) can Diplomacy down a fight.

My point is:
-- This was a doable task, and to me not outside the realm of "normal" uses of Diplomacy
-- PC's are supposed to be able to do difficult stuff
-- I wouldn't overly modify things, especially if it's against the PC's and not applied consistently. For example, is it more realistic to apply a -2 TH to missile attacks for a windy day, and a -2 TH to bowfire for a rainy day? Sure, wind is bad for missiles and rain messes with bow strings. But I wouldn't bother, since it's too much "paperwork" and it will annoy the players. It's especially bad if the -2 TH for windy doesn't apply to monster attacks (giant-tossed boulders may be too big to be effected by the wind, but it doesn't feel fair).

 

[Treebore]

Elf Witch your on solid ground and I even congratulate your friend for going her own way no matter what her husband does.

I ma sorry your first run at being a DM is going so rough for you, but it sounds to me like you are being an excellent DM. I would say your bending over backwards way too much, but when good and best friends are involved thats what you do.

I still think your friend has a lot of issues he is refusing to deal with and that is why he is getting stressed by a game. Plus, if he is used to DMing/running the game, he is probably having problems adjusting to another DM's style and approach. Face it, a lot of DM's DM all the time because they like their way of running the game.

Bottom line is I think you are being a very good DM and one heck of a good friend to your friends. Its time for your friend to step up and do the same for you and his wife. He needs to talk to someone and let a lot of his stress out. He seems to be getting selfish, and that is usually because they feel like they are doing a lot of sacrificing without enough payback/appreciation/however he looks at it.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I applaud you Witch Elf. I think you have done just about everything possible to please your friend. It seems to me he wants everything done his way or no way at all. From reading your posts it appears to me that D&D isn't the game for him. He doesn't seem to like the mechanics of the game and the fact that his character isn't kick-ass from level 1.

I know that he's going through a tough time in real life at the moment, and you seem to be extremely mindful of that, but I don't think you should do any more for him in-game than you have already done. He seems to have several in-game advantages over the other players (such as higher wealth) as it is. Giving him more, like allowing him to gestalt will just alienate your other players.

I would suggest you don't do him any more in-game favours. It's not fair to everyone else playing. If he doesn't like it, he has the option of leaving. As he is your friend you can still see him outside of your game. Maybe you could organise another time each week to get together and play something else with him.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Elf Witch]

I have no suggestion other than editing your previous posts to remove reference to their names.

There is no sense in your friends seeing their names on this board advertising their real life problems. This can only cause additional irritation. And it may cause it years from now.

I missed this earlier. Neither post or read here and that is not their real names. I took the names from a Stargate Game we once all played in.

 

[Chimera]

Elfwitch;

Sometimes you can do everything right, you can go above and beyond the call of duty and put yourself out more than you have any right to do....and still lose the battle.

The man is looking for excuses to quit, to complain, to be unhappy. Anything and everything you do makes no net difference at the end of the day.

There comes a time when you, for your own sake, acknowledging that you're going to lose the battle and that you've injured yourself more than enough in a futile attempt to turn things around, have to give up control of the situation and let things go. To accept defeat.

Don't do any more here. If he asks for more, please don't just give it to him. Instead, ask him honestly if it's going to make any real difference. Point out that everything you've already given him in an effort to make him happy hasn't done that. Point out that the whole thing is making YOU unhappy and bothering everyone else. Then put it back on his shoulders by telling him that he has to decide to be happy or unhappy, but you can't make him happy by making yourself and everyone else unhappy.

 

[BSF]

Elf Witch, you aren't wrong in this situation. But I do think you are having some clashes with current playstyles. Yes, the group as a whole may have agreed that they want to play in a heavy story/heavy roleplaying game. But that is a group consensus and might not genuinely reflect individual playstyles.

As well, playstyles will adjust based on changes in individual lives.

So what do you do about that? Well, it depends. Are you interested enough in individual players to analyze playstyles and start trying to accommodate what each player finds interesting? If not, you are likely to lose the player, at least for a time.

If you are willing to do that work, dig out the DMG II and read up on individual playstyles. Elicit some more feedback from all the players and see if you can tag out individual playstyles. Please note, it is rare that any one player only fits one particular playstyle.

As an example, I have a strong emphasis in 4 playstyles. So long as I get some feedback in one or two areas on a fairly consistent basis, I am happy. But when I have no feedback in all four areas for a prolonged period of time, I start to lose my enthusiasm in the game.

Don't pigeonhole the players too tightly. You will miss some opportunities if you do.

Now, back to your specific examples, I would hazard a guess that the player enjoys storytelling as well as having moments where he likes to be cool and shine. It is possible that even though he did a lot of information gathering and was the reason the party learned information, he missed how that was actually relevant to the story. So now he is feeling like he isn't contributing to the story at all, and is certainly not impacting it, because the story is all about the cleric - in his mind. So when a situation erupts between two clerics, where he might be able to do the cool character thing and talk them both down, he is less successful than he hoped. Along comes the cleric and is able to achieve the results the bard player was hoping for.

It doesn't make you wrong. But it might mean that you are not identifying what fun factor/stress relief the player is playing the game to find. This might be complicated by the fact that the player is having so much RL stress that the reasons he wants to game have changed since the beginning of the game.

Analyzing playstyles and then trying to accommodate them is a lot of work. It might be something that takes too much energy away from other game prep. Some people would even argue that doing this work is just pandering to a needy player.

I'm not going to pass a value judgement on that.

But if you are looking for a way to make this situation better, addressing the problem from the perspective of misidentified/unidentified playstyles is one possible route.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Hey Elfwitch.

I really only wanted to show a little support. I've read through the whole thread and I think you're doing a great job both in the game and out. Hopefully your friend come out of the funk he is in. Maybe suggest he get some professional counselling.

anyway mate, once again I think you're doing a great job.

cheers,
Glen

 

[doghead]

general -

Hey Elf Witch. I just wanted to pitch in with a little support as well. I thought it was a nicely crafted encounter and well handled. I was surprised to hear that this your first time as a DM. You seem to have a good handle on the job.

It also sounds like you have done a great job so far trying to deal with the situation. The player is having a rough time. But he is also taking his frustrations out on you and the others in the group. Its not fair.

I think that you are right, its time to put the ball in his court. He needs to make a decision, either stay and play, or take some time off and let everyone else enjoy their time at the table. If he decides to stay, he needs to accept that DnD is the system in play, and take ownership of the decisions he has made about his character.

I really hope that things work out for you and your friends.

doghead
aka thotd

 

[The Eternal GM]

Sounds to me that Mr. Bard's wife has put her foot down and said what she wants.

That being the case, it really is a matter of him bringing his real life stress to the table, or just him making a mountain out of a mole hill.

It honestly does sound as if D&D isn't the best fit for him in general, but it is a very option-rich system, there's bound to be ways to help him do whatever it is he wants to do.

My concern would be how is all this going to dampen the spirits of the rest of the group? Is it something everyone will get over quickly, or are there going to be lingering complaints about this? If not, great. Hopefully that's the case, but if not are you (as DM) going to be dealing with other complaints from the table?