Where do we stand on Harry Potter?

[John R Davis]

I'm not sure it is that complicated. Surely prisons have dealt before with cis-gendered prisoners who have a history of sex crimes against same sex victims.
Sports can and should be dealt with on a sport-by-sport basis under the leadership of each sport's governing body.

But a significant part of the issue here is tarring every trans woman with the same brush as a very small percent of cases, no matter how sensationalized they have been by the press. Don't trans women deserve safer spaces than the male-dominated ones they no longer identify with and may, outwardly, no longer resemble?

No. It really is complicated other wise the progressive Bill brought into law in Scotland that is not going to work well, in the small % of cases, would be fine

The concern is not the trans-person, who in theory is protected by the same law as everyone else, trans rights are human rights BUT the predator who would be able to access areas they shouldn't and are a real threat to women's safety ( safety they have fought bloody hard for over the decades).
I don't know the answer. It is complicated so I can see both sides arguement. It is the minority cases that test law the most.

 

[Cadence]

This isn't the article I was looking for on it, but there are several out there with more detail.

Why Do We Have Men's and Women's Bathrooms Anyway?

They date back over 100 years

time.com

The one that boggles me is when a place has two single user bathrooms and feels the need to have one be male and one female. I wonder a bit if sussing out why that is still a thing would explain anything useful about attitudes, and now am tempted to keep track of which places do one each single-user M and W and which just have two single-user bathrooms for anyone.

The scouts in the US, for example, have had their multi-user facilities separated by gender and age for decades. If the goal is protection, i wonder what the statistics say about children using the men's room in public vs. anything else similar.

And then I wonder about elevators and stair wells.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Lol, my sister went to CSU Chico; last I heard they had chilled out a bit, but it definitely had a reputation...

Whenever I see the name of that school, I always go through the exact same thought process (because I'm a goldfish):

1. Cal State Chico. Huh, that reminds me of Chico and the Man!

2. I wonder if that show holds up?

3. I should probably go and look!

4. Oh yeah, that was a show about a Mexican-Americans. And it was made in the 70s!

5. ..... yeah, I probably don't need to look.

 

[p_johnston]

No. It really is complicated other wise the progressive Bill brought into law in Scotland that is not going to work well, in the small % of cases, would be fine

The concern is not the trans-person, who in theory is protected by the same law as everyone else, trans rights are human rights BUT the predator who would be able to access areas they shouldn't and are a real threat to women's safety ( safety they have fought bloody hard for over the decades).
I don't know the answer. It is complicated so I can see both sides arguement. It is the minority cases that test law the most.

So the problem with a nuanced discussion is that it requires both sides to be arguing in good faith. Right now one sides stance is "trans people are evil and shouldnt exist." So arguments like yours, no matter how well meaning, are going to be used to try and eliminate Trans people altogether. So quite frankly for now it is that simple.

Edit: if this crosses the line into to political let me know and ill take it down.

 

[Undrave]

If you dictate to your friends what media they should consume, and break friendships if they read, listen, watch or play something you don't like... are you really a friend?

Framing it as 'something you don't like' is INCREDIBLY reductive and diminish the harm that JK Rowling is actively engaged in.

But to answer your question, if your friend finds it more important to feed their nostalgia over standing with you against oppression, THEY weren't really friends.

Besides, people stop being friends all the time over various things. Nobody's owed friendship and you shouldn't be obligated to force an incompatible friendship anyway.

 

[CleverNickName]

@Undrave 's last sentence bears repeating:
Nobody's owed friendship and you shouldn't be obligated to force an incompatible friendship anyway.

 

[John R Davis]

So the problem with a nuanced discussion is that it requires both sides to be arguing in good faith. Right now one sides stance is "trans people are evil and shouldnt exist." So arguments like yours, no matter how well meaning, are going to be used to try and eliminate Trans people altogether. So quite frankly for now it is that simple.

Edit: if this crosses the line into to political let me know and ill take it down.

But not JKRs. She has called for no one's "elimination" though evils one have called for hers.
I know nothing of how bad things beyond the UK (but I can imagine, well maybe I can't, how bad things are elsewhere).
The true enemy of "Trans people" is clearly religion, which is my last word on this complex matter

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

If you dictate to your friends what media they should consume, and break friendships if they read, listen, watch or play something you don't like... are you really a friend?

If your friend says "hey, this makes me uncomfortable and worried about my personal safety," and you insist on continuing the behavior are you really a friend?

And, when balancing the two harms, which is the bigger deal? "I want to talk about a YA novel" or "I want to not think about the possibility that there are people out there right now who want to murder me?"

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

This isn't the article I was looking for on it, but there are several out there with more detail.

Why Do We Have Men's and Women's Bathrooms Anyway?

They date back over 100 years

time.com

The one that boggles me is when a place has two single user bathrooms and feels the need to have one be male and one female. I wonder a bit if sussing out why that is still a thing would explain anything useful about attitudes, and now am tempted to keep track of which places do one each single-user M and W and which just have two single-user bathrooms for anyone.

The scouts in the US, for example, have had their multi-user facilities separated by gender and age for decades. If the goal is protection, i wonder what the statistics say about children using the men's room in public vs. anything else similar.

And then I wonder about elevators and stair wells.

Here's what everyone wants to ignore: Nearly all of the abuse and sexual violence children will be the victims of (and adults, for that matter) happens at home, by someone they know. There are very few boogeymen hiding in bushes or bathroom stalls trying to hurt people. Those people are doing it in their homes or the homes of family and friends.

It's a super-uncomfortable truth that the person to be scared of is not the "other" but the people that it's a lot harder to confront or even acknowledge as a danger.

We shouldn't be deforming our society to prevent harms by largely non-existent boogeymen and we certainly shouldn't be tormenting scapegoats because of our unwillingness to acknowledge this truth.

 

[Cadence]

Here's what everyone wants to ignore: Nearly all of the abuse and sexual violence children will be the victims of (and adults, for that matter) happens at home, by someone they know. There are very few boogeymen hiding in bushes or bathroom stalls trying to hurt people. Those people are doing it in their homes or the homes of family and friends.

It's a super-uncomfortable truth that the person to be scared of is not the "other" but the people that it's a lot harder to confront or even acknowledge as a danger.

We shouldn't be deforming our society to prevent harms by largely non-existent boogeymen and we certainly shouldn't be tormenting scapegoats because of our unwillingness to acknowledge this truth.

I'm guessing that is true of where women suffered the most violence back when the laws about bathrooms were put in place a century and a half ago (or whatnot) too.